How would 21st century training, nutrition 'n PEDs improved ATGs?

As I understand it, certain drugs conduce the muscles and tendons to grow stronger (through training) than they would in the same circumstances minus the drugs.

The stronger muscles contract with greater force, which combined with the fighter's natural aptitude for punching, his technique and his speed, will result in GREATER PUNCHING POWER.

 

Not quite, you can train speed like anything else, otherwise world class sprinters simply wouldnt train.

Genetically the body has white muscle fibre and red muscle fibre. The white muscle fibre is best suited to explosive exercise, ie speed, red muscle fibre for slower endurance exercise.

Certain genetic testing has showed people of West African descent tend to have on average a much higher percentage of white muscle fibre, hence yes speed demons tend to be black. The people with the highest average percentage of red muscle fibre were of East Afrcian descent

However that doesnt mean someone who isn't cant be fast. 1 of the greatest female sprinters of all time was Merlene Ottey and she had a relatively low percentage of white muscle fibre, which was measure at 60% white fibre if I remember rightly (it could be lower).

How could this be possible? Well you can train red muscle fibre to act/switch to behave like white muscle fibre through apropriate training. Training and improving on certain explosive exercises will improve speed and power. Obviously there are genetic limits

 

Ask a cop next time you run into one how hard it is to take down someone on PCP. I definitely think PED's can affect your ability to take a punch.

 

I think modern training has had about the same effect in boxing as it has had in football (European that is). In both sports athleticism is only a part of the total package, together with technique, tactical thinking and mental fortitude.

Football players have in general become faster and stronger over the last decades, and the game has developed accordingly, but there are still top players that doesn't rely on athletic attributes. And the ATGs of the past (Di Stefano, Pele and Maradona etc) would without a doubt still be top players if transported to the present.

 

I'm not terribly educated on this, but my understanding is that it's no real use taking steroids if you're not weight lifting. In that case it would be strange if steroids have been in use for more than half a decade in boxing while weight lifting only really came along in the sport some 20 years ago.

 

Jesus Toney is one fat *******. That being said I think certain types of modern training aid explosiveness, single shot power and speed. But with the lack of emphasis on technique and in the ring work stamina can suffer.

Looking at the fastest boxers of all time the majority are from the last 25 years. The number of Top 50 ATG's in that timespan?? Not so good..

 

Times are not better or worse. Circumstances change; the essential never does. And every modern convenience deprives us of the benefits of struggle.

Knowledge advances in nutrition and training methods exist, and should be welcomed. It's called civilization, progress. A 4.5-generation jet fighter today would and should not be designed based on Top-Gun-era technology.

Thus, in no small part due to marketability based on a perfect record, the disappearance of the 15-round limit, and the examples of fast, powerpunching greats from Ali to Tyson to Thomas Hearns, boxers today fight less and focus on explosive, Dolby-thudding power, rather than the old-school emphasis on cardio conditioning for the long haul.

Outside of PED's, which, no matter how sliced, is nothing but cheating,
this new emphasis is simply different..and fine. Can weight training improve punching power? Evidently, empirically, yes. Can it turn a Corbett into a Shavers? No, but I think it's denial to ignore all the recent bulked, hard hitters in the Buddy-Baer Richter category around today.

Were Langford, Dempsey, Louis and Armstrong around today, human nature being what it is, I strongly doubt their embracing modern preparation, but I also strongly doubt they would need it to compete per their credentials.

When I envision fantasy bouts, I see the contract signed about a year before rumble hour, thus allowing the old-time fighter time to acclimate and choose his preparation methods. Again, outside of a few modern tweaks -protein shakes, Dempsey using the treadmill late night watching ESPN- the old-timer would probably resort to bare-bones climbing of solitary peaks, once on top, perhaps hollering, fists aloft, "PAC-EE-AH-OHH!", or "VIT-AH-LEE!"

This version of Dempsey would probably be a nick better in every physical department than the Toledo incarnation, but, then again, this small evening of the playing field is negligible compared to the champion's heart and mentality that the Mauler would bring to the table against Wlad today: those of an overcomer from a time when fighting was more akin to a life-and-death existence, not merely sport.

 

Sure, they train to get faster at sprinting, but that's by improving technique and by building max. strength through explosive training (strength + speed = power).
The actual speed component seems to be almost entirely genetic. Or so I've read.

Yes, I've read all this too.
I'm no expert on speed and I'm not sure the fibre issue is everything though. Huge bodybuilders can have the white fibres in abundance too, but that doesn't mean they are fast (or maybe it does?).

Merlene Ottey was very tall and very powerful, a great athlete, and very formidable over 60, 100 and 200 metre sprints. Whether this is wholly comparable to having hand speed (punches take a split-second) is hard to say.

I cannot think of any fighters who went from average handspeed to super-quick, unlike for instance several who did develop their strength and power (and agility, balance and other technique etc.)

 

Speed = Power to Weight Ratio. The more powerful and explosive you become at a lower weight the faster you become, its simple physics. We know various exercises develop power/explosivity, if you improve at these exercises your speed will naturally increase.

Sprinting training is focused on explosivity, over speed training, sprint stamina in various forms. Its a combination of raw speed and speed stamina andevery sprint coach will disgree with the 'speed can not be trained' theory

Obviously there are genetic limitations, but I guarantee you a man with the best genetics in the world, who has never ever thrown a punch, will not have good handspeed

The genetics of speed is based on the percentage of white fibre, the total quantity of muscle fibres (you can increase the size of each fibre but can not change the number of fibres you have), the insertions in the muscle and then there are issues of biomechanics of muscle insertions and joints.

Bodybuilders do not necessarily have allot of white muscle fibre. Just because they have big muscles does not mean they have allot of white muscle, it just means the are maximising their muscle size as a whole

The examples of fighters changing their hand speed isnt a good 1, for 1 thing they've been training for around 10years before you initially see them so they are prtty much peaking. And another is they rarely change their training and if they do it isnt always for the good. Another aspect of handseed is punch technique and it is very hard to change once its learned, and punching speed is very much basd on technique

 

Cmon John, if youve lived in a gym since th stone ages youve definitely seen fighters improve their speed with the improvement of their skills and technique.

 

I bet Cassius Clay walked into the gym one day and had the fastest 12-year-old hands in the world.
Oh, maybe it took him a couple of weeks to warm up to it.

No, I'm talking about fighters I've followed through the amateurs on up.
As far as speed goes, there's never much change. If anything they get slower (as they grow bigger).
Everything else can improve dramatically - stamina, power, strength, skill.
But the fast ones were always the fast ones.

 

Did you follow Hearns as an amateur ?