Why Didn't Larry Holmes Ever Unify The Title?

That's true....But Greg Page and Pinklon Thomas would have provided Holmes with stern tests.....As lackadaisical as both of those guys were about training, I'm sure climbing into the ring against Larry Holmes would have motivated them enough to show up in great shape......

 

Anyone who lived through Holmes' reign should also remember how Larry openly admitted to ducking certain fighters....How that can still be a contested issue at this point is mind boggling.

 

Because it is far from simple ...

None of the contenders listed ever dominated the division for any period of time. There was zero public outcry in the form of a big fight , let alone a superfight. Every one of these guys consistently fought listless fights, lost fights and came into the ring flat or in bad shape. If there was a serious oponent that could have generated big money Holmes would have jumped to figh them. Not three million instead of 2.2 but big money like he had previously made v.s. Ali and Cooney. Page, Witherspoon, Dokes, Coetze, Thomas, Tubbs all won one , lost one, looked like crap in two others. None earned the recognition of a big time contender. There was no serious public demand for any one opponent, just some bitchig over a Marvis Frazier or Scott Frank.

The second was that Holmes was so disturbed from being exploited by the corrupt alphabet soup politics and Don King that he said f-ck it, that he was fighting who he wanted to ... this took place after the Cooney fight when he was already pushing 33 so we are really talking two years out of a near seven year reign. And still he fought Bonecrusher, Bey, Witherspoon and Williams, all young, big strong fighters.

That;s the facts.

 

Holmes was definitely the best heavy of that generation. He came along at precisely the right moment. when the old guard of Ali,Frazier,Foreman and Norton had either faded or retired. he was a fighting champion,taking on all comers until '83 then became more business like. Who can blame him / he'd no need to prove himself by uniting the alphabet soup of titles.

 

Which would be even more reason for Holmes to fight them. These were the best of the division and undeniably better than the Frank's, Frazier's and co that Holmes dined on to retirement. But he took the easy route home. He said himself he was going to. He basically said fukk the world.

Thomas was unbeaten from his debut on for 7 years. When he had Holmes old title the time was right to fight him and the public wanted it.

It was Pages (mandatory)turn, and politics or not he didn't get it. He craved a fight with Holmes, as did Thomas.

Weaver and Witherspoon gave Larry the fights of his life. He told Witherspoon you ain't even fighting me again not long after their fight. Well, he told all the top contenders to get rooted. Coetzee for ages, Thomas, Page, Witherspoon etc.

So don't fight the best available? The guys listed were the best available, along with Dokes of course but neither fighter nor their kin promoters were ever going that route. The bottom line is Larry feasted on **** in the lat part of his reign.

That counts for something and has some ring of truth but it opens up a huge tin of worms. Is this the antics of a true great? How much do we hold this against him when we have the likes of a Hagler craving the best till the day he retired?

It's all up to individual interpretation. I have Holmes #4 in history but i understand others dropping him much lower based on the heart of this thread. Tho my ratings would differ significantly from theirs i'd have no grounds to attack or debate them imo.

Bonecrusher and Bey severely lacked skill, Witherspoon was a fledgling that hadn't exactly set the world on fire and Williams was a fledgling as well. There was much better oppostion around, lets be honest with ourselves.

The thing is Larry didn't fight even one sizable dog on the run home. Even, for example, a Thomas and Coetzee fight would have mostly put this debate to bed but instead we got zero from him.

I used to hate the guy, but surprisingly toward the end of his career i warmed to him greatly and barracked for him madly in the Spinks rematch.

As i said, i rate him #4 so i'm not exactly on hater terms with him. If he would have beaten say Page at the right time, Thomas and Witherspoon in a rematch he'd be a shoe in for #3 and difficult to keep out of #2. The shame of it all is that he very likely would have achieved this but chose to take the easy route. He should have dared to be even greater.

 

Exactly. In addition, the man fought often. He had twenty title defenses, not the seven of Marciano or the five of Dempsey. He had some light touches such as Zanon, Leoux, Frank, Frazier, Rodriguez spread out over the years but he also defeated Norton, Weaver, Shavers, Snipes, Cooney, Witherspoon, Bey, Smith and Williams and that is a very good crop of fighters ...

 

Well, Holmes actually said he wouldn't fight Cooney again unless it was for "fifty million" or something like that. I think he said that around 1983 or '84.
He also made similar remarks, about not fighting "Weaver and Witherspoon, and any of them good hard-punching heavyweights" in 1984.
He joked about getting Lorenzo Zanon out of retirement.

3 million dollars is a lot of money. More so then. And all those guys Holmes was refusing to fight or rematch were fighting each other for a lot less.

Holmes' problem was largely that he couldn't draw flies to ****. :deal

 

Pinky Thomas always appeared buffed and ready to rumble when he came into the ring...... P.T. at 216 to 221 pounds was heavily muscled in the upper body...... BUT! His stamina often stunk and he waited too long to get off with shots....
atsch
Thomas looked so slow and unmotivated against Berbick in 1986.... He lost the eye of the tiger by then.... It never came back, either.....
:-(

MR.BILL

 

Didn't know Pinklon was as short as he was.He's barely 6'1".

 

NAW! Thomas is easy 6' 3" tall.... Thomas was taller than Weaver......:hat

MR.BILL

 

I was looking at the video of Thomas-Coetzee on Youtube.They have Thomas listed as 6'3/4" and Coetzee as 6'3".And Coetzee was looking a shade taller than Thomas.Wasn't Weaver around 6'1", he didn't seem that tall.

 

Yeah... Mike Weaver is about 6' 1.5" tall.... Not the tallest heavyweight ever.... But I'm pretty damn sure Pink Thomas was a stretched 6' 3" inches with his hair back in his prime.... I just revewed my "Thomas-Weaver" fight tape not too long ago..........

MR.BILL:deal

 

In 84 he was 35 years old ... Larry was all about $ ... he would sign to fight either Klit tomorrow if the $ were right ...

 

So would I.
Sometimes the money's never right.

I dont view Holmes in a bad light at all, most of the champions did the same thing. But he was very open about it, and he just couldn't command the purses he felt he "deserved". (nevermind that he wasn't the draw when he got paid mega bucks against Ali and Cooney.).

He was willing to shaft the leading contenders out of what was their due because he knew he paid his dues before them. I dont condemn that, but I dont condone or excuse it either.

In a way, he benefitted from the splintered title. Witherspoon, Page, Thomas, Dokes and Weaver were all fighting each other for some sort of "world title" while Holmes was refusing to fight them.

 

That depends on how looks at this, do you want a guy that fights 2 times a year, but in thsos 2 title defenses, fights the top guys?

Or a guy that fights around 7 or 8 times a year, but hardly if ever, fights the top guy.

Cooney is about the only top guy imo for Holmes. But other than that, most of these guys were near ten and 0.