Is anyone else getting tired of the revisionist?

Ok But you are comparing a good fighter from today against ATGs from the past, so of course you are gonna see things that way.

 

Good read mate:good Yeh my late father & grandfather used to earn a few shillings in the booths pre/post-war up in geordie land at the fun-fair, no work about & when there was it was down the pit's, they'd go to all the county fair's & take on allcomers, some of his tales were hilarious at what went on in them.

Sort of thing like a punter would pay say 5/10 shillings for a incredible prize of £25 nicker if he could last 3 minutes without getting knocked down, good biz he said, one in the guts of the local toughie who was full of ale & who'd spew it all over yer he said That was at the lower end of coarse, but there were circuits that used to travel around giving 3 round expo's in the booths. It was the norm then & helped put bread & butter on the table when times were hard, which they were back then.

I was 5 years of age in 1961 when attending my 1st ever P.E. class we were all handed mitts then all lined up, put into guard then jab/guard/parry, remember it like yesterday, all my teachers were ex-military so it was the absolute norm to have some boxing coaching at P.E. my mum was over the moon that we did it.

What a ****ed up lesbian PC ruled world we live in today what we these creep ****s ruling us with their health & safty bull**** laws. ****in wankers, i hate the ****s, remember when Amir Khan got the Olympic medal, those labour/socialist shitbags Tony Blair & crew were up there in a flash for the photo shoot promising this & that & how there's bring boxing back into schools ect ect, rode outer town & ai'nt been seen since:bbb

 

Great post unforgiven


I bet Albert Westphal, the guy that got knocked out by Sonny Liston would run over todays heavyweight division, minus the Klit bros.

 

The improvement in tracks argument can be thrown out the window when you see todays cross country runners, outstrip yesterdays track times. Some track runners run bare feet, so you can ignore the shoe argument. Yes running does have plenty of technique/form and its damn hard to maintain it while tiring

Its not just running, look at weight lifting, records have improved in all measurable sports

If boxing was measurable you'd clearly see improvement. Lets focus on visual measurements. How about we look at the fastest fighters of all time, the all came in the last 30years pretty much, minus Ali who was a genetic freak, thats a measurable improvement

 

You're wrong, old timers would look slower on modern cameras because old timers footage was sped up. So they are slower than you think

 

No necessarily. What speed the film should be run at is often guesswork, so nothing is as hard to judge as the quickness of old-time fighters, one way or the other.

 

Refs moving at 100mph is a good indication the footage is sped up

 

I haven't noticed the refs moving at 100mph in the Robinson or Louis eras. Perhaps on some films earlier.


Even with speeded up footage, some refs, such as Jack Welch, would have a tough time moving fast.


Bottom line is that comparing quickness across eras is difficult because of the different projection speeds, with old films often project slower than they should have been.

 

Apparently the boxing world for you ends with the US. Concurrent to the US decline in boxing participation, the Orient and Former USSR states have grown greatly and represent a much larger potential talent pool.

In regards to football and basket, let's turn the argument on it's head. Did the choice of sports for Holmes, Ali, Tyson and Holyfield deprive baseketball or football of a potential great player? I think not. Based on anecdotal evidence all four were pretty lousy athletes when it came to America's traditional sports.

 

You make good points, but:

1. East Asia might well have more than made up for the decline of the United States and other first world countries in the lighter weights, but what impact did these countries ever have from middleweight on up?

2. A bigger impact than other sports might well be a greater prosperity and level of education. A far greater percentage of the population goes to college today. How many are likely to pursue boxing as a career? There are so many other solid career options these days.

3. You pick athletes who might not have had other athletic options, but there were some who did. Sugar Ray Robinson was an outstanding baseball prospect at shortstop, but there was no real opportunity of his playing in the big leagues. Marciano got a tryout with the Cubs and failed, but with so many more pro teams today he might have stuck with one. Would Jeffries be a boxer today or a football player?

4. The impact of sports like basketball and football is more that they siphon off promising athletes in high school and allow them to achieve a college education. Why would a fellow who is a CPA try his hand at boxing? The boxers of generations ago probably did not even have high school educations more often than not.

 

Football has been around since the 1890's in the USA.

It didnt have a impact than, and I dont think it has the same impact today imo.

 

I don't know what you are saying, but pro football was basically a back-burner sport until the 1950's. Now it is by far the most popular sport in the country. College football was always popular among the college educated, but they were a tiny percentage of the population until after WWII.

The impact of gridiron football today is profound compared to what it was in the first half of the century, fed as it is by high school and college as well as pro teams.

 

Sure about that??

Red Grange, Jim Brown, thsos guys are legends of the sport.

The sport was always big. I didnt think it had a impact on boxing than, nor now.

 

Yes, as I matter of fact I am certain.

Jim Brown was from the fifties and sixties when the impact of pro football really began to hit and the shift began which saw pro football replace boxing as a top sport. Brown was considered a promising boxing prospect. but a college education and pro football career was probably far more appealing.

Red Grange was a graduate of the University of Illinois. If he hadn't pursued football, what do you think the chances were of him becoming a boxer rather than just going into a profession?

Red Grange became nationally famous playing in college, as did someone like Johnny Mack Brown. Brown bypassed the pros for the more lucrative career of a movie star. By the way, Grange also acted, and his serial, THE GALLOPING GHOST, is available for purchase for $5.95 from Alpha Video. I have to buy that some time.

 

I've seen Abraham in some (not all) P4P top tens. I think that fight is fairly representative of this era. I know PowerPuncher would have us believe Barney Ross doesn't belong in the same ring with Mayweather, but there's enough film on Ross. I believe what my eyes see.
Mayweather, Pac, JMM, Donaire and a few others are certainly tremendous fighters. But there isn't the depth as in the past.