Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson

Tyson by way of KO, hes a far far more skilled boxer. Louis's footwork was just too plodding to see him get off his shots first and his defense wasnt nearly as good. Louis would catch Tyson at times, but Tyson lands more and it results in Louis getting stopped sooner or later

 

Skilled?

It was never Tyson's aim to get to the punch first. He actually conceived himself as a counter-puncher. If anything, Louis "plodding footwork" (i.e. maintance of good balance) is an advantage in an exchange. You don't have to move; you can wait for the other guy.

 

James Smith only landed a heavy shot once on Tyson, in the final round, and stunned him.
Joe Louis took a shot just as big from Max Baer and stayed upright too.
Galento was a huge hitter, and Braddock caught an over-eager Louis off-balance.
I think Tyson's balance was worse than Louis.

Well, if that's an argument, yes, Tyson was knocked out in 10 by Douglas. But Louis went 12 with Schmeling.

No, he was consistent in not getting floored or troubled at all in the vast bulk of his fights.

In his first 54 official fights (up until the WW2) he was floored only by Schmeling, Braddock, Galento and Buddy Baer.
Braddock wasn't a monstrous puncher but wasn't feather-fisted either, and caught Louis off-balance.
Schmeling was a big puncher. Galento and Baer were monsters.

Louis got up and fought back every time, accept the second KD in the Schmeling fight which came 8 rounds after he was decked the first time.
The other three fighters were all KO'd.

Maybe Tyson was a better finisher. But since only Schmeling beat Louis there, and it took an extra 8 rounds after Louis was hurt, Tyson's prowess would be similarly limited by Louis's.

I guess a lot of people think Tyson beats Louis. That's okay. But I dont see it myself.

 

Louis had better footwork than Tyson, who was often off-balance.

Louis's "shuffling" style was in use when he was stalking smaller guys who were moving around and away from him, and bigger guys who were trying to keep Louis at long range.
Against Tyson, Louis doesn't need to stalk or "plod" as you call it.

Louis had some neat footwork and would side-step and turn quickly when he needn't to, but he consciously remained flat-footed for as much of the time as possible, to save energy and keep his power planted.

 

Although many people on classic will find it difficult to be objective on this one. Joe Louis was simply to slow of a starter and far too stationary to deal with the explosive, elusive Tyson from '86-'88. As with Marciano, Joe would have a chance once the fight got past the 4th round or so...but I don't see that happening.

 

It's strange because I actually give Marciano a better chance to weather Tyson's early storm than Louis.

 

Prime against prime, I would bet heavily on Joe Louis. And, by the looks of this thread, I would make a ton of money on this fight. In a rematch, Joe would beat Mike worse, but after some of these Tyson guys saw the first fight, I probably wouldn't be able to make much money on the second one.

 

Old Joe survived young Marciano for nearly 8 rounds, but a prime Joe can't last past 4 with Tyson?

 

1. Not getting kd'ed by every half decent opponent you face like Louis....

2. So effectively you agree Louis's slow feet means Tyson will get off first and control the exchanges? Louis's defense isnt good enough to evade Tyson while hes getting beat to the punc. Tyson could counter punch wonderfully, but more often than not he'd land first and do damage

Plodding feet are never an advantage

 

Agreed. I think many Louis supporters are failing to objectively look at Tyson's brief prime('86-'88) to see what he was actually capable of. He was a perfect combination of Patterson and Frazier... without Frazier's stamina of course.:good

 

Joe Louis wasn't strictly a slow starter.
If a man wanted to start rumbling in the first round, Joe Louis was quick to oblige.

Tyson would tear at him, and Louis would react to it in the proper manner, ie. fight back like a demon, with short precise powerful trademark punches. And he was so cool under presure, even if knocked down, I cant see him folding against Tyson.

Conversely, I dont rate Tyson's ability under pressure. Even when he was on top in a fight beyond a few rounds he'd get frustrated and could turn very predictable winging in one telegraphed punch at a time.

 

I agree, that Joe Louis' number one problem, was balance. Jack Johnson always said Joe Louis was the hardest puncher he has ever seen, but his balance in his footwork was his weakness. And I have to agree.

However, I do not believe that weakness is enough to lose him the fight to Tyson. Because compared to the average fighter, Louis had excellent balance. But he would have lost to Johnson and Ali. Tyson would get crushed.


Imagine:

"Tyson is bobbin and weavin, tryna find the inside....WOW! he jumps in and lands 3 powerful shots on Louis! Two to the body, and a big hook the the head. Louis is still standing though, remarkably! He looks okay! Lous answers back with a big right hook! It lands flush on Tysons cheek! Tyson has stopped weaving! He doesnt look sharp anymore! Its a standup battle now, and Louis is bringin it to him!"

Thats how I see it

I love this thread and this forum. I can discuss this for days its great

 

I watched every prime Tyson fight back in the day, and have re-watched every one on a constant basis almost every week or month since.

And I am well aware of his strengths and his flaws. He always had flaws, but he was improving up until the Biggs-Holmes-Tubbs-Spinks fights, then he just stagnated and declined.
Tyson was a very good fighter then but his brief prime gets over-exaggerated. He wasn't the finished article and he had flaws that were obvious to people even then.

 

Let me break it down for you

Tysons footwork = great
Louis's footwork = ****

Louis was the off balance 1 with the dodgy bal;ance, which is evident by him getting kd'ed by every half decent contender he faced

 

Tyson was off-balance more than Louis was. Louis could put himself off balance at times but Tyson was off-balance during most of his attacks and certainly on the inside, where he just stood feet together.
He got away with it because he was so aggressive and because his opposition was a bit weak.