Andre Dirrell "Tweets"

A Ph.D. in neuroscience would hardly be relevant to the question. At the least I would want someone with clinical experience with head trauma, ideally a emergency medical doctor or a military doctor. A neurologist would also be good.

 

stovepipe,

you cannot identify a concussion with an MRI. A boxer is hit in the head and knocked unconscious, a concussion occurs, by definition. That's what a concussion is.

So, AD suffered a concussion. That is a fact. (See wikipedia entry if you like).

Then AD goes to hospital and gets MRI. They are looking for brain damage or brain edema or other visible effects of a concussion.

Doctor examines MRI and does not find anything. This has nothing to do with a concussion. It has to do with possible serious neural consequence of a concussion.

Everyone on board?

One more time. You cannot detect a concussion with a brain scan. You CAN detect serious consequences of a concussion.

 

I enjoy the discussion, and I don't think our views are actually that far apart.

In answer to your question, that would depend on the situation. Lets say i was in a fight with Mike Tyson, and he committed a horrible low blow, 1st punch of the 1st round. Would i exaggerate the pain and force a DQ?? Of course i ****ing would. That would be my only hope of winning.

So the answer to that question, i'm afraid, is YES.

Please, go on...

 

So:

Lewisham is to Mike Tyson as Dirrell is to Arthur Abraham?

That's the analogy you've set up. Rather absurd, wouldn't you say?

Lets say you're fighting Gary Coleman and beating him senseless and you're in the 12th round. You slip and he kicks you in the face, hurting you badly.

Would you fake the KO or get up and beat the hell out of Gary Coleman?

 

Hehe, ok that's better. No i never compared Tyson to Abraham, i simply answered your question.

Well firstly, it would depend on how hurt I was. If i felt that I was just stunned, and Gary Coleman was there ready to be taken, I would get back up and kick the **** out of him...

If he hurt me a bit worse, and if he was coming on strong in the 12th round, and I was tiring, I might stay down tbh. If i chose to stay down, I would also be forced to slightly exaggerate the pain, so as not to look stupid to my girlfriend and homies.

My point is that its all related to the fighters perception of themselves and of their opponent at the given time. We know Dirrell believes AA is the hardest puncher at 168 (at least according to his tweets), so there we have Dirrells' perception of Abraham. We also know Dirrell was knocked down in the 10th, looked on ***** street and tiring heavily for the rest of 10th.

I for one question AD's self-belief, particularly after the performance vs Froch.

Having said that, I've already given him credit for fighting the way he id for the first 9 rounds. But thats only 3/4 of the fight...

 

But if he was acting it all goes out the window. If he wasn't really unconscious and he wasn't really convulsing (not saying he wasn't or was, I am saying "if") than he never definitvely had a concussion by your definition because he wasn't really unconscious.

What I am reading elsewhere is that unconscious from a punch means you definitely got a concussion. I am reading that and than I am reading that the doctors definitely say he did not have a concussion. That is where the problem lies.

How come we here all the time after athletes go the doctor the results put in terms of the seriousness of their concussion. They must be looking at something to make these conclusions.

Also, why are the doctors saying he didn't have a concussion. Shouldn't they be saying something like "we didn't see any effects from his concussion" but that isn't what we are reading. They are saying he did not have a concussion.


I am reading that even a little trauma is detectable let alone something where you are violently shaking about and gibbering, that his scans should have been off the chart showing major bruising bleeding, but to then walk out of the hospital within an hour and be given the all clear is extremely unusual. Team Dirrell would have surely liked to have Dirrell's reaction to the Abe punch backed up with some sort of evidence, yet they had nothing from the hospital.

 

Fair enough. I have a hard time believing Dirrell was prepared to fake-convulse when he was on the threshold of beating AA and only needed to run around the ring for 4 minutes, but I can't categorically rule it out.

Just out of curiosity, have you rewatched the 11th round? AD looked fine and was outpointing AA easily. Not sure I see much evidence of an imminent KO.

I wonder aloud, are the people that believe AD was faking primarily europeans who have grown up watching soccer, where faking injury is routine? In America, this just doesn't happen. It's considered incredibly lame and is the main reason we cringe when forced to watch World Cup soccer.

 

somebody else's take:

I have never seen anybody get KO'd and have time to sit for 2 secs then move their hand up to their head rub it, then slowly fall over and gently roll onto their back, then start twitching. It was ludicrous. When you actually get sparked your body shuts down immediately and instantly collapses. The brain stops sending all messages to all outer extremities like the arms and legs so that the body drops flat allowing blood to get to the head asap. There isn't any thinking time involved, its spontaneous. Dirrells acting and it was indeed acting was terrible.

 

Also, does the faking scenario seem consistent with a guy who grew up in the mean streets of Detroit and trains in Kronk gym and hangs with Tommy Hearns?

How many guys from Kronk gym fake being knocked-out.

Does Many Steward teach knockout-faking there?

A little heavy bag, a little speed bag, a little jumping rope, some sparring and then a little fake leg-trembling to round out the session.

That's the routine at Kronk in Detroit.

Question: How long would Lewishamboy last walking alone in Detroit in AD's neighborhood?

 

Lol, yeh football here is crazy man, you might even be onto something there!

I did rewatch the whole fight actually. I've seen loads of threads on the the 30 seconds of the 11th round that took place where AD was running and managed to evade AA but didnt land anything of his own really. What i havn't seen anyone mention is that AD was actually looking very tired and shaky in the 10th. My opinion at the time of watching was that he was gonna fade half way through the 11th and AA would catch him against the ropes. If i'd have had to bet on one fighter at that stage i would've still been torn between AD by UD and AA by TKO/KO...

 

Good point.

I always said that Barrera (who was even more desperate than Abraham) should have been disqualified vs JMM for much the same thing - only Barrera clearly paused and then chose to punch him while he was down.

 

Lol try walking round my streets bruv :bbb i'm one of the lucky few that aint dead or in jail, truss me...

U dont think theres youth crime in london town or what?

 

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_Boys[/ame]

 

i dont think he faked it at all and im just glad dirrell got the win he should have got against froch. i still dont get why people dont like dirrell. i thought he put on a hell of a performance and even enjoyed his performance against froch and thought he did enough to win. Froch, upon the announcement of his vistory, didnt seem to enthusiastic. he knew he didnt deserve it and my guess is everyone who HATES dirrell also like froch...who is a horrible example of a boxer. Guy has no skills and i expect him to easily lose his next bout.

 

Didn't those guys just mainly fight on the buses on New Cross high street?