Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by tommygun711, Mar 28, 2010.


  1. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    The advantage Louis has is that Tyson is a mid-range fighter, essentially not very comfortable on the inside. However, with Tyson's jab and elusiveness I just feel he can afford taking something from Louis. Louis will be overwhelmed and can't afford to get hit, but he's going to be right with the right hand as Tyson slips as jab at one point.

    I feel this is an awful style matchup for Louis. Either Louis is overrated H2H or this is just a terrible matchup. I lean toward the latter. Louis would have a much better chance in a matchup against Foreman/Liston.

    Can I say Tyson's chin is being vastly underrated? It's his mental complex that we can question, and question only starts in the second half of a fight. Unfortunately I don't see Louis lasting that long.

    Tyson by KO/TKO from anywhere from round 2-6.
     
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  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A crouching fighter would be sombody like Henry Armstrong, Rocky Marciano or Tony Gallento, to use the films you have provided.
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    He lowered his center of gravity, fought in a bent legged stance, and did a lot of bobbing and weaving.. That's enough to make the category for me... In fact, he has often been described as having a more modern version of Marciano's style ( a man you listed as being a crouching fighter. )
     
  4. itrymariti

    itrymariti CaƱas! Full Member

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    Honestly, some of the people here sound like they've been watching a few ESPN Classic highlight reels of Tyson and nothing much else. Tyson does not have a decisive edge over Louis in power, chin or speed. There is ZERO precedent for predicting a wipe-out here.

    Joe Louis was no turkey. You don't pick up 22 KO's across an 11-year stint as World Heavyweight Champion for nothing. Anybody who attempted to brawl with a remotely decent version of the man usually went down in the first couple of rounds like he'd been shot in the head. If you rate Tyson's offence but not his, you must be applying chronic double standards.
     
  5. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

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    I see Mike Tyson charging in with combinations and catching Joe but then Joe fires his perfect shot and floors Tyson. I think of all the champions his punches were the most accurate. I would have to rate him top 5 as far as power goes. You can certainly see the power in his hsots when he floors fighters in slow motion. If anyone's going to catch Mike bobbing and weaving inside, it'd be Joe Louis.
     
  6. Abdullah

    Abdullah Boxing Junkie banned

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    Wow, Tyson is winning the poll right noiw 23-12. That is suprising to me. I voted Tyson as I believe Tyson would be too much for Joe Louis. Tyson was faster than Louis and yes, I dare say more powerful than Joe Louis. Better movement, etc. Louis had a bit of a shaky chin and if Tyson got him down early, it's over.
     
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  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    :good:good:good


    and Louis almost bounced back up on all the occasions that the other poster posted as examples.

    Tyson relied on explosiveness, something that he would lose quickly after being hit a few times by Joe.
     
  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Look at it again, Tyson has his right foot forward, then as Tubbs steps around and out from him, Tyson falls back and has to do a little hoppety-step to get his footing again.

    Tyson's footing is extremely unorthodox and leaves him off balance half of the time.
    This isn't some new relevation or super criticism I've just come up with. Veteran trainers have been remarking on Tyson's lack of balance since the 80s !
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I never said it wasn't a good performance. In fact, I chose it because it is one of his best.
    I'm not the type to pull a ***** move like finding a clip of him being knocked back by Douglas, or the KD against Holyfield, picking him on a "bad night". I'm picking stuff that I think was him at his very best.

    Also, me being "very critical" of Tyson's performance is only a reply to those who are saying "Oh, Joe Louis had poor footwork and bad balance" ..... I'm just voicing the opinion that actually Tyson's footwork and balance was technically more flawed than Louis's.

    And, I'd like to add, that those criticisms of Louis are almost purely based on his "bad nights" and worst mistakes. I chose not to show Tyson getting knocked down by Holyfield or pummelled by Douglas, or clipped by the very basic Frank Bruno. Since those are acknowledged as bad nights.
    So, I figure I'm being a lot fairer to Tyson than the Louis critics are being to Louis.

    It's funny how people can say Tyson "had great footwork and Louis had **** footwork", and it more or less go unchallenged by some people here who i suspect perhaps even agree with it silently. But when I say Tyson's balance was worse, and pull up fair prime examples of Tyson, I'm suddenly being unfair.
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Tyson's defensive skills have become overrated.
    If he allows himself to get jabbed in the face that kind of proves the point.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Most of his title fight opponents easily walked him back in a clinch. This is easy to spot.
    They didn't take advantage of it because they weren't equipped with the speed and power to do anything more than clinch to survive. And the braver guys lacked either the power or the speed.

    And, yes, Tyson fought a lot of opponents who were less than half decent.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Tubbs steps away, and Tyson's legs are all crooked and as Tubbs moves around him Tyson falls off balance.
    For you and magoo to not see this is bizarre.
     
  13. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Look, there's no need to question my credibility over a lack of a disagreement.

    Tyson I think clearly has more power, though. He definitely has a better chin, arguing that their chins are equal is beyond ludicrous and although their speed are very comparable I think a poll would show 95% would side with Tyson on that issue.

    Others brought up how many times that Joe went down against fighters that weren't even in the same league as Tyson. Tyson didn't go down during his peak years ever, and was rarely even hurt against vicious hitters like Bruno. And I think displayed his chin against Ruddock. Lastly, if Louis is going down or getting hurt than he's going to see the best finisher in the HW division besides himself after him.

    Bad style matchup for Louis. Tyson would probably win.
     
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  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    How can you say that it's not even a matter of being off balance ?
    Louis's feet are completely square on !
    Utterly ridiculous to say Louis isn't off balance.


    No, Louis just got tagged clean by a 240 pound puncher.

    Galento was a big hitter. And Louis might have been off balance.

    Louis's balance wasn't perfect. He made mistakes. He chin wasn't solid granite class either. I never said otherwise.

    At the same time Tyson wasn't perfect either, and not a complete fighting machine beyond and immune from any sort of criticism.

    And then it's implied that all the Louis supporters are "rose tinted" nostalgia freaks looking at thing unobjectively, when in fact the Tyson supporters are screaming "foul !" when anything is said about Tyson's flaws.



    I think Tyson took a punch better than Louis.
    i think Louis took numerous punches - and came back from them ! - better than Tyson did.
     
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Tyson is being overrated head 2 head.

    And he's almost made-to-order for Louis. In my opinion.

    People are talking as if Louis has some sort of tendency to get crushed by hard punchers early on.
    And as if Tyson didn't get whipped by Buster Douglas. I know the excuses will flow from all directions when Douglas is discussed, but it happened.

    Also, I hate the myth going around that Tyson's flaws only started to emerge after Rooney left.
    Now, that's a good example of REVISIONISM !
    I even remember Rooney talking about how Tyson would get frustrated and over-eager and start winging in one big shot at a time. Back in '87.
    This was evident early on. He'd shut down for periods and become very predictable, when he was in his prime.

    Truth is, it was no big deal because Tyson was only 21 and no one expected him to be the finished article.
    But in hindsight it happened to be his PEAK, so the bull**** revisionist myth now circulates that he didn't have those flaws at all before Rooney left him. :-(

    Yes, his flaws became more pronounced after Rooney left, but he had those tendencies all along. And they were discussed and commented on at the time.

    If any "old-time heavyweight fighter" is glorified and viewed with rose-tinted specs and some sort of godly reverence, I think that fighter is Mike Tyson, who fought back in those heady old-time days of the 1980s.
    :lol: