Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson

Quoted For Truth.

 

Good read.

Forgone conclusion.

 

Tyson whould beat Joe,and easy,

 

my sentiments exactly. Prime tysons ability to finish a hurt opponent were second to none BUT.....the longer the fight goes, the more it favours louis especially a 15 rounder. Tough call either way

 

mike tyson would murder schmeling

 

Nothing going to Louis way in this match up.

 

I dont want to get into the "overrated"/"underrated" debate, but I think almost every time Tyson is discussed his ability to slip punches is highlighted, so it's clearly not being overlooked.

 

Well, I never even mentioned "skills".

If my statement's so silly, you should prove it wrong. Maybe I am wrong.
Which world-ranked fighter had speed, power and courage against a prime Tyson ?
And, yeah, you can throw in "skills" if you want.

 

One thing i will say...

There was a list of times Louis was floored in the early rounds, being used as a negative towards him. But he got back up and won those fights, right? Surely heart and determination as positives outweight sturdyness as a negative? I think your thinking like robots and the mental aspect of the fight game is being highly underrated

 

Good post. :good

Yeah, it's crazy, like because Louis could well get knocked flying by Tyson's punches and the initial onslaught, or decked, that means it's all over for him. A lot of people are ignoring the fact that every time Louis got decked he had a lot more to say about it than just stand there and get wiped out. That would be totally and utterly against the nature of Joe Louis. Most likely, he'd get up and respond in kind with sharp powerful precise dynamite punches.
Even if Tyson hits harder than anyone he faced, he's not going to just give up or turn into some glass-chinned flake who will pass out at any sniff of trouble. He's gonna get up and give Tyson (or anyone else) a taste of his own medicine.

And that's just the basic assumption we have to make if we are to give him any sort of credit and acknowledgement for the way he conducted himself in his career. But some here dont want to even do that, they act like it's plain sailing for Tyson. And I just dont get that.

 

Tucker skills speed and courage (undefeated)
Tubbs speed courage skills (Never neen ko'd)
Ruddock power and courage
Bruno power decent skills (courage in the first fight)
Biggs skills and speed (undefeated)
Thomas skills and courage (never been ko'd)
Holmes (in my opinion an underated win)
Spinks (undefeated never ko'd)
To start dissecting them as inadequate fighters is unfair. We can do that to all champions resume. I also dont want to get into a pissing match over Tysons comp, but I just think your selling it short, and being very nitpicky showcasing points of his career where he was off balance during a fight, whereas Louis was actually floored on many occasions against lessor fighters. Theres also a very real mental factor when a fighter comes into a fight on this level undefeated and/or having never been knocked out.

 

On what basis? They have almost identical knockout records. If anything, Louis proved his punch against more durable opponents in an era where you didn't get the stoppage unless the other guy was beaten into the ground. He flattened giants like Baer, Simon, Carnera. How many comparably tough opponents did Tyson stop?

I'd probably give Tyson the edge, but it isn't a huge edge by any means. Louis was knocked down more, but then he was never laid out cold by mediocre punchers like Buster ****ing Douglas - even when they wheeled him out to fight your boy, he never looked anything more than overwhelmed.

Louis was very fast, arguably faster if you consider his frame and style. Look how quickly he slips the jab and comes over the top with a killer right here:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sv1ph-Ecf0[/ame]

And Louis wouldn't have been seen dead losing to Kevin McBride. What does that prove?

That argument works both ways, obviously.

You could give Tyson the edge in any or all of power, speed and chin, but it's not a decisive edge, and certainly not enough to be predicting a massacre. You need to say more than "Tyson overwhelms him".

 

Well, my actual statement that you declared silly was ...

"They didn't take advantage of it because they weren't equipped with the speed and power to do anything more than clinch to survive. And the braver guys lacked either the power or the speed."

Speed AND power, and you can add in "skills" if you want.

I dont think my statement was ridiculous or silly.

But, it's not important because you are correct when you say :

Ok, that's fair enough.

Again, you seem to have misunderstood where the whole point about Tyson's balance originated from.

I was simply responding to all the negative nonsense about Louis having "**** footwork" and "bad balance", "plodding footwork" being spouted by the same people who were quick to insist that Tyson was "great" in these areas.
I pointed out that, no, actually, Tyson's footwork isn't perfect either, and nor was his balance.

Louis being "actually floored on many occasions against lessor fighters" is your line.
Sure, he was vulnerable to a hard punch flash knockdown and/or his balance wasn't always perfect.

But it's also true that only 4 men managed to floor him in his prime years, in 59 official fights, up to WW2.
And on 3 of those occasions he got up and knocked the other guy into next week.
So, cant you see how straight off the bat these things are being spun negatively towards Louis ?
And it goes almost totally unchallenged.

So, if I'm being "very nitpicky" it's because the level of debate was already at the nit-picking stage, and very one-sidedly too.

Four men (5 KDs total ) in his first 59 fights.
Only 1 loss - a 12-round competitive fight with a tremendous amount of punishment dished out.
Those are the facts of prime Louis.

And people are talking as if Tyson wipes him out, because Louis was flakey or something.

:-(

 

Tremendous bias in favour of louis in this thread.
To people who think that louis chin or speed are comparable to tysons,well then the film evidence must be wrong.
Stylistically this is a very bad matchup for joe,nobody is saying joe is not on the greatest heavies ever.

 

Well Tyson is leading in the pole, so that's at least a good thing.