The Iron Man v Iron MIke

And you base this claim of better delivery on never seeing them fight ofcourse. Jones scored plenty of brutal kos with bigger gloves against better defensive fighters. Are we also forgetting Fitz was past it with a low workrate? Jones would hit Jeffries far more times clean than he'd ever been hit.

Jeffries was getting ko'd against the best boxer he faced anyway, hardly indestructable

 

Jeffries is like Ruiz in many ways, with his size and wrestling style. What makes you think Jones cant hurt Jeffries, he hurt Ruiz whos chin is more proven against HWs than Jeffries. Jeffries got outboxed and got taken 22rounds by a shot Corbett with a career total of 2 KOs

 

The weight card is often pulled against Jeffries for fighting Super middleweights. The reality is he didnt.

He fought and knocked out
the following fighters who were 190 to 200.

Ruhlin, Goddard, Jackson, Everett, Munro


And he knocked them all out within 4 rounds!

Jeffries actually had more trouble with the smaller more elusive fighters - Fitz, Corbett, Choynski and Sharkey than he did with the bigger opponents! Those knock outs are good solid and quick knockouts against high quality opponents. He was taken the distance by first class lesser fighter such as Sharkey, Choynski and Armstrong. But sometimes the KO blow just doesnt come, for no real reason. It happened to every single fighter that ever lived (possible exception of Prime Sullivan and/or Fitz). Tyson was taken the distance by some fighters who really were not in class, this doesnt effect his reputation as a feared puncher, same with Shavers and others. Jeffries is no different.

Incidentally, powerpuncher, comparing Jeffries to Ruiz is quite funny, they differ in one slight area. Prime Jeffries was never once beaten. I tend to think that Prime Ruiz might have been. How about we compare him to A mythical Ruiz with more speed, strength, stamina, chin, ring savy, defence, aggression, and then a bit, and then we might get a better idea.

 

Wrong.

I guess that if I could take you back in time you (and other posters) would soon find that Jeffries was not the fighter you thought he was. He is compared on this forum to Chuvalo and somtimes Ruiz and neither is really a verry good comparison.

 

If Ruiz drew the colour line and feasted on past it SMWs maybe he could go unbeaten too :yep Ruiz has a better jab but similarly got outboxed by faster smaller men. Ruiz's power is more proven against bigger men - ie kd'ing Holyfield

 

It could also be argued that over 25 rounds, Tyson would have had to pace himself if the fight got past a certasin mark, or risk loosing the endurance contest.

Under London Prize Ring Rules this would absolutely be an issue.

 

These 200lb guys were elite, in a verifiably deep talent pool.

They had horible horible things done to them.

I would absolutely rather take a prime Mike Tysons combination with modern gloves than take a body shot from Fitzsimmons with the gloves of his era.

Fitz knocked out men up to the size of Vitally Klitschko and possibly bigger. Ed Dunkhorst was 280lbs, and fighting at world level, and Fitzsimmons destroyed him.

Firstly, Jeffries beat up most of the top black challengers before Johnson came allong.

Before Johnson, I doubt that many of them could have given him a competitive fight.

Secondly, Jeffries fought the challengers the press wanted him to fight. If there were bigger fighters like Dunkhorst, who did not get a fight, it was because the smaller guys were beating them.

I am not sold.

 

1. In an era where a title shot is recieved in 12fights, is anything but deep, quite the opposite

2. Irrelevent

3. Given you seem to mystersise pre-1900s opponents Im not suprised, doesnt mean he hit half as hard

4. You believe 6'3 is taller than 6'7 now? Dunkhurst was a fat boy knocked out by plenty of LHWs nothing special in Fitz beating him. I believe we were talkng about Jeffries anyway not Fitz, they're different people

5. Beating Jackson on his death bed doesnt count as 'beating most blk challengers'

6. Theres simply wasnt any good big men then, except for Johnson and Denver Ed Martin who'm he ducked

7. Even if you are under the dellusion Fitz/Corbett were as good as Jones, they were both way past it by the time Jeffries got to them.

Out of interest who do you consider the best from Jeffries/Corbett/Fitz? My personal preferance is Corbett, why did he never get a Fitz rematch?

 

I would say it is a hell of a lot deeper than what we have today, when David Haye got earned a shot against Wlad, after beating one fighter who was maybe a top 50 heavyweight in the world!

And then he got given a World title, without even beating Wlad!

How many live contenders have some of the other recent title shot contenders got.



Incidentally, I am a little sympathetic towards the Jones argument. He is very, very unproven, but I do tend to think that he may have done some damage to some heavyweights. I dont think he would be an easy fight for jeffries by any stretch and i even think he has a decent chance to do what Fitz and corbett couldnt. Though i also believe that Jeffries would have caught him and beat him at some stage, if not in the first round or two.

If Jones were to beat Jeffries, it would show Jones can take a heavyweight punch and place him in very good position to beat other all time great heavyweights head to head, if not all of them.

 

When did I say it was?

I was saying that this Tyson matchup is silly and that Jones would be a more fair opposition. A previous thread proved that with Jones actually winning the votes, regardless of how much you disagree with that.

 

Ruiz lost to the only two past it former Super middleweights that he fought