Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson

Im not God. I can't say with certainty who wins and who loses.

Every statement/claim/prediction I make is based on the general consensus that we are all just having fun debates. I just happen to be a more passionate believer for one of the sides to the argument than others might be.



I don't usually like to make such bold predictions or claims like the ones I've made in this thread, however I feel strongly about my opinion on this one.

I think Rocky would have beaten Tyson too, but I'm not as sure as I am with this one. Which is why I haven't made bold statements, or a single post at that, in that thread.



But Louis, Tyson. Forget about it. The Brown Bomber would accomplish his mission.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Trying to lure Tyson in and catch him with big shots by going backwards is suicidal imo, like you said lateral movement, not backing up is the key to beating him. I just don't see Louis being able to employ this strategy the way that Douglas and others who extended Tyson were able to, despite the fact that Louis is unquestionably better than Douglas/Tucker/Holyfield etc.

Louis simply wasn't fast enough on his feet for this imo, and while knocking out Joe Louis is a hard task Tyson is one of the few I'd pick to do it. If my life depended on picking someone to defeat Joe Louis, I may very well pick Tyson.

 

None because to knock him down you had to damn near kill him. His chin and balance was such that he didn't give up flash knockdowns, this should help his legacy not hurt it.

I'd say the shots he took from Tucker early, Bruno early, and the wars with Ruddock answer any questions about him having no heart. Was he Marciano? No, but he wasn't a ***** either.

 

Agreed,

Michael Dokes was Ko'd with only one of the huge left uppercuts that Tyson took literally dozens of... Frank Bruno retired having stopped 38 of his 40 opponents, and Tyson took his best. Tucker was no slugger but the guy could crack, as could Smith.. Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis, hammered him all night long before it was over with, and none of those guys faced the best version of Tyson in my ( and many other's ) opinion... I won't question Joe Louis's heart nor chin, but if we're honest I don't think that most of the guys who decked him or even knocked him out, had the power of the men that I just mentioned...

 

I use to be like Reznick, then my mind grew up a little. I loved the legends, and mythology of great fighters like Rocky Marciano. Knowing how tough he was and how much he overcame... I've reasoned he could've maybe taken Tyson surely just because of his guts and willpower... then I woke up. Realized it was just as much as a work of fiction as the movie Rocky that Marciano could take on Tyson considering all his disadvantages in a fight with him, stylistically.

I'm not saying this is the case with Louis vs Tyson. It has the glamor, and a reasoned argument, but it's essence comes from the same mindset. Stylistically, I just favor Louis against guys like Holmes, Lewis, Liston, and Klitshcko than I would Tyson. And this does not come from overrating Tyson.

 

:good

That first paragraph really slams it home. Douglas had all the tools and the style. No doubt...

 

I agree,

Tyson's resume and legacy can't be rated over Joe Louis's, but due to various physical and stylistic issues, this would be a very bad match for him, and it has nothing to do with being partial towards one man or the other.. As for comparing opponents, while men like Tony Tucker and Razor Ruddock may never hold a candle to a guy like Max Schmeling in terms of accomplishments, I simply can't imagine Schmeling winning a sizable streak of fights, taking a world title, and manufacturing any kind of a notable record in the 1980's and 90's.. He would not be a key player in the mix of things, and nor would most of Joe Louis's best opponents... Walcott might have been a good fighter in a modern era, if he could make a reasonable weight without compromising too many of his abilities, and it would also help if he could somehow get his career on the right track an earlier age... These are some very big " could's " and "if's" however. Braddock would be a fring type on about the level of an orlin Norris or Fancesco Damiani, as would Buddy Baer, Arturo Godoy, and Primo Carnera.... These men do not reach the tier that was shared in the early 90's by men like Tyson, Ruddock, Foreman, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, or even Moorer ( albeit Tyson did not face a lot of them either. )

 

Here at last is the crux of the matter.

Both of these boys have a level of finishing ability that puts them beyond virtualy everty other fighter in the history of the division. Even if sombody had walked through the shots of a prime George Foreman I would make no assumption that they could withstand the surgical combinations of a Louis or Tyson.

I think that both probably faced oponents with more power than the other, but power on its own isn't worth two buckets of warm spit. I am not much of a believer in the concept of the punchers chance but I absolutely believe in the finishers chance.

This fight is not just puncher on puncher, it is finisher on finisher.

 

True, and I'm not disagreeing, except that terming the ability to take a huge punch from an all time great puncher is worth more to me than a mere " warm bucket of spit. " Earnie Shavers was no technical genius, but Larry Holmes taking his best throught two long fights earned him the right to patent his chin as being one of the very best...
This fight is not just puncher on puncher, it is finisher on finisher.

 

Joe Louis soaked up a fair few Max Baer shots and nobody ranks his chin among the best.

Audley Harrison took a shot off Danny Williams that practicaly lifted him off his feet, and nobody rates his chin.

 

Your comments seem a bit tinged with romanticism.

I don't blame you at all. 70 years later, Louis is, and will be forevermore, A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. And quite scary. His aura in the ring is that of a cold-blooded killer and sends something of a chill down my spine.

But the same can be said of young Tyson.

Regardless of credentials, styles make fights, qualities determine results. And Louis' clear inability to walk through a solid punch must be held against him here. In his prime, heavy-handed, fat Galento had him briefly overwhelmed and later on one knee with one punch! Postfight, brash Lou Nova, who had witnessed at ringside, snorted of Louis, "The fellow can't take a punch." Who in his right mind would say that of Tyson during his reign of terror?

Of course, Tyson wasn't hit often at all. But it happened: Thomas' perfect right-hand smash at the end of Round 1; Berbick's ferocious uppercut in Round 1; Holmes' jabs and swift right cross early in Round 4; Bruno's blatant rabbit punches and excellent left hooks in Round 1, as well as a great right uppercut before being stopped; Tucker's uppercut; even Smith's last-second awakening. These moments are hardly mentioned or even noticed because Tyson simply shrugged through.

And, again, Louis's back-shuffling style cannot bode well for him. Yes, he may catch Tyson coming in, but he will no doubt be countered. And this is where chin factors in.

In their inevitable firefight, these two titans are close enough in punching power, speed and arsenal. But Tyson walks through the better punch.

Furthermore, Tyson is more elusive than Louis. He made a career out of countering past the jab.

 

"If I didnt kill sombody now and then you would forgett who I am"

Blackbeard

Joe Louis is probably thinking the same thing right now.

 

"head brush".

Check out the replays starting 0:23

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peqO89Cm2tI&feature=related[/ame]

 

You are hilarious if you really think that did anything. Wow. Williams was down from the punch, no debating. All you have to do is listen to the sound of it. Brutal. Perfect, full transfer of energy. Their heads brushed because he was already out and falling on his ass!