Rocky Marciano picked Patterson to beat Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Briscoe, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. Briscoe

    Briscoe Active Member Full Member

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    Last night I was doing some research, and I came across the first Patterson-Liston fight. I stumbled across the fact that ol' Rocky picked Patterson to win. Does anybody have any reasoning behind this one or did Marciano think that Patterson had a legit shot at victory against "The Bear"?

    In addition to Marciano: James J. Braddock, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Ingemar Johansson, and Sports' Illustrated also picked Floyd over Sonny.

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingemar_Johansson"][/ame]
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The people who picked Patterson generaly cited his better speed, and his two wins over Johansen in suport of their case.
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Maybe they were betting on Sonny.
     
  4. round15

    round15 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lots of people picked Patterson and ended up on the losing side of course. Floyd could have done better for himself IMO. Fear of Sonny got a hold of him before the ink dried on the contract.
     
  5. jaffay

    jaffay New Orleans Hornets Full Member

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    I think it was more acceptable and politicaly proper to pick Floyd over Sonny. I think that voting for ex con was in bad tone at that time.
     
  6. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I was thinking the same thing.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Probably they though his reach was shorter than Boxrec said because it's how tall you are that is most important.
     
  8. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  9. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Now days, we look back and say no way would I pick Patterson over Liston.


    But also Patterson was the heavyweight champion, so that plays a large part in who would get the votes.

    Marciano as heavyweight champ was favor over Charles and Louis over Walcott.

    Only in RARE cases is the champion not the pick for the fight.
     
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    it seems crazy now since we know what happeed but back then fight people rememberd liston struggle with marshal, summerlin, whithurst and machen. There was no obsesion with big heavyweights back then since smaller heavys generaly had the edge over big guys. sure liston was great against wiliams and harris but both dudes had been knocked out before. perhaps rocky and co figured patterson knocked out beter guys than liston in johansson and moore? when you think about it johansson and moore were beter than the guys liston beat till that point.
     
  11. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Being old enough to remember, they were a lot of people who always had doubts about Liston.

    This is a post I found on another boxing blog by a poster named Naf203

    "Mike brings up and interesting point. According to the old boxing magazines, Liston was considered a beatable fighter even in his prime. I had always been under the impression that Liston was seen as a force of nature prior to the first Patterson fight and that it was a foregone conclusion that Liston would beat Patterson.

    From reading old boxing magazines, I found that I was wrong. Liston was seen as a slow, ponderous fighter by many. The Ring Magazine's "panel of experts" picked Patterson to beat Liston in the first fight. Liston was an 8 to 5 betting favorite according to the magazine, but of thier panel of 36 experts, 20 picked Patterson to win."

    I don't have that copy of Ring, but this is my recollection. Jack Dempsey wrote an article in Sport Magazine about Liston being overrated. Ring writers Dan Daniel and Ted Carroll certainly were skeptical. Liston's rep went through the roof with his two first round ko's of Patterson and he all of a sudden was unbeatable. He went in against Ali a 7-1 favorite.
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Liston 2 one round knockout victories over a Prime ATG heavyweight are perhaps the most dominating performances over another ATG, a fighter has ever recorded. I do agree with Fogey that Liston was not seen as some unbeatable force at the time, and that it was the patterson victories which put him over the top. But I am sure upon retirement experts looked back and realized Liston dominated contenders Machen, Folley, Williams, Valdes, Dejohn...who Cus D amato avoided fighting. So Liston essentially cleaned out the era once he decisively defeated floyd 2x.
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    henry cooper and gilbert odd rated liston prety low in books writen around 1979-84. Listons "stock" as a ATG grew around the tyson period.
     
  14. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It was acknowledged in the newspapers at the time that Liston had fought the tougher opposition. Patterson was given enough respect as a champ and for his performance against Johansson in the rematch not to be counted out entirely, but he was still the betting underdog against Liston, a rare occasion for the defending champion.
     
  15. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It must be remembered that Patterson was not all that highly regarded while champion. Many felt that D'Amato ducked the toughest opposition on the way up, and also once he became champ.

    I remember an article in one of the boxing magazines put out in 1961---"Even Carnera was better."

    There had a discussion show on TV following the Friday Night Fights and I remember the comment following Patterson regaining the title. "Ingo turned out to be a one-handed fighter with a glass jaw. Patterson is better. He is a two-handed fighter with a glass jaw."

    All snideness aside, Patterson was not that highly thought of.