Rocky Marciano picked Patterson to beat Liston

Were there any brave forecasters picking Patterson to beat Liston in the second fight ?

 

Nobody that I ever heard or read about. I don't think many thought Floyd would fall in the first round again, though. I know I didn't expect that. I was still predicting Sonny in 4.

 

True... who exactly did Liston beat after Patterson anyway? Henry Clark? Chuck Wepner? Nobody important!

Prior to fighting Patterson Liston beat Johny Summerlin x2, Marty Marshall 2 out of 3, Mike DeJohn, Cleveland Williams x2, Nino Valdes, Willi Besmanoff, Roy Harris, Zora Folley, Eddie Machen, and Albert Westphal among others.

His best wins were clearly Williams KO3 and KO2, Folley KO3, Eddie Machen W12 (Liston lost 3 points for low blows vs. Machen), and Patterson KO1 and KO1.

Liston wasn't supposed to be able to beat Patterson in the way that he did. He had five 1st round KOs in 34 fights but not against anybody as good as Patterson.

 

Crazy. Maybe they just liked Patterson better as a person. Sometimes I wonder if fighters pick with their hearts. When you have a swarmer with a suspect chin matched vs. a bigger and stronger boxer puncher type who is also more durable, the later is going to win at heavyweight almost every time. The real results here were back to back first round Ko's for Liston.

 

Interesting book "Soul On Ice".
Bit strange that guy Cleaver. He claims - in that book - he was a ****** who started off on black women then progressed and targeted white women exclusively. (I dont think he was ever convicted nor even caught or accused of ****. Odd claim to make then.)

He later became one of the leading figures in the Black Panther Party at their height.
But by the 1980s I think he was a staunch conservative, and backed Reagan and both the George Bush Presidents.

He was a strange one.

 

Old champions were also often paid by the promoters to talk up the underdog. You have this obvious mismatch and here comes Dempsey or Louis to give the "that other guy is a lot better than people think" pitch. This "lure the suckers in" carnival pitch is one of the things which gave old-time boxing its unique flavor.

 

Liston had pattersons number for sure but its only one great guy. williams was never a serious threat to the title. folley complained of his eyes burning! machen was a good win but not as good as ingos win over fast eddie. the other names sonny beat were fringe types any champion would beat. whestphal was a woeful missmatch, the guy was a 5.7' blond dude on holiday who was so out of depth he needed a life guard!

 

Williams was a serious threat to Patterson. Damato avoided him like the plague. Williams could have knocked Patterson out. I would not be suprised him he did. Williams also could and probably would have flattened Ingemar Johansson. Johansson did not like to fight big intimidating fighters(think Ed Sanders). I have many sources from news articles during the time stating "Williams was having a hard time finding men who wanted to fight him". He was probably the most feared heavyweight of the era because of his size, power, and speed. He was rated in the top 5 four years in a row during his prime.

Folley was another huge threat to Patterson and Johansson. Certainly a better boxer than anyone they had ever beaten. Folley was the # 1 rated heavyweight in the world in 1960.

Maybe not..But Liston was never knocked out TWICE by patterson. In fact did patterson last more than 2 rounds in 2 fights with liston?

Nino Valdes was a big man with a good left jab and dangerous punch in both hands. Damato wanted no part of him. Even after Valdes climbed up to # 2 in the RING ratings in 1959. Valdes had the ability to knock both floyd and ingo out. Valdes certainly took apart the European heavyweight scene in the mid-late 1950s.

Mike De John was a 6'5 giant, who had a murderous left hook. He was another puncher Damato didn't want patterson to taste. Dejohn was top 10 rated.

Wayne Bethea and Roy Harris were both top 10 rated. Bethea was a tough spoiler who had never been stopped before, and Harris floored patterson and took him 13 rounds. Both Bethea and Harris were put away in 1 round by Liston.

Johnny Summerlin was a skilled boxer who would go on to crack the top 10 a year later. Liston beat him in only his 5th pro bout!

Liston beat many other men like 6'3 Billy Hunter, 6'6 225lb Gerhard Zhech, 6'3 Henry Clark, and 6'5 Chuck Wepner who would all crack the top 10 at one point in there careers.

I do not know why you are attempting to compare johansson to liston. Liston was leagues above him in both resume and head to head ability.

 

now name the champions each would beat. I really cant think of any.

 

Valdes, Williams, Folley, Machen would all beat Fitzsimmons, Burns, Hart, Carnera, L Spinks, Braddock, Rahman, Briggs, Moorer.

Also, Big Cat Williams and Nino Valdes could very well have smashed out Johansson/Patterson. Neither liked to fight big punchers.

 

So give us the names of the champions who-purely for promotional purposes-bigged up Floyd's chances in the second fight.

 

rocky also believed he could ko liston, maybe he didnt think much of sonny as a fighter, would have been a great match up if 2 of them got it on