Juan Manuel Marquez would outbox Alexis Arguello

Lol

 

Agree.

 

Is this a late april fools joke?

 

Some serious Arguello nuthugging on this forum, discounting Marquez in such a way. Arguello has his advantages here but Marquez is faster, better footwork, more skilled and better counter puncher of the 2. Marquez has underrated power too. I certainly see Marquez outboxing Arguello in the early going, JMM's susceptbility to take left hands would see Arguello's left hand be continously be more effective. Despte this weakness neither MAB or Pacman managed to dominate JMM

I'm not sure on my pick here but I don't think there will be a stoppage, JMM has plenty of heart and savy and Arguello is plain durable. I fancy Marquez to win at 126 and maybe Arguello edging it at 130 but I give JMM a good shot there to

 

Being sure fighter "A" would beat fighter "B" is being a nuthugger for fighter "A"?

 

Juan Manuel Marquez is not a supremely skilled, all round boxer.

Deeply flawed defensively, lost many rounds to medicore world level fighters.

 

Agreed with every word in this post.

I think what we have here is people underrating JMM as the great fighter he is.

I too see JMM winning comfortably at 126 lbs.

Arguello by razor decision at 130 lbs in a fight that could go either way.

At 135 lbs and above, Arguello just has the lenghth and body type to handle the weight better than Marquez does, I believe Arguello wins there and maybe by late KO.


I'm just as big an Arguello fan that I am of Marquez.
In fact, I'm a fight fan today mainly because of watching Arguello in the 80's on CBS.


For those just simply dismissing JMM......who did Arguello fight with the similar counterpunching style of JMM that convinces you to just simply dismiss Marquez?

Maybe some of you can enlighten me on the counterpunching high caliber fighters Arguello beat that so convinces you all he thrashes Marquez.

.....and lets note here, that although Marquez has been knocked down, he's only really been hurt enough where he could have been stopped, in the Pacquiao rematch.

......every other time he's been down, he was nowhere close to being stopped.

......and lets note that the Pacquiao and Mayweather who had him down, both strike lightning fast.

Arguello was slower than Marquez, and so Marquez likely see's his punches coming alot better than he see's a faster fighter.

 

:good:good Good post i agree with all you and PP said, except i dont think he was that badly hurt in 2nd fight with Pac, more in the first.

 

You're kidding me about Marquez being more hurt in his first fight with Pacquiao.

You've got to watch that round again. As far as landing a concusive type punch.....that did'nt happen in the first fight for Pacquiao.
I can clearly see Marquez midjudging Pacquiao's ability to close distance when he threw that straight left.

Pacquiao started those left hands from so far back, Marquez did'nt guage they would land.......but he saw them coming which is why he got up quickly each time he was dropped.
Not once in those knockdowns did Marquez' legs do a number on him.

.......Marquez came out more damaged in the first fight because very early on, Pacquiao landed a shot right on the nose that bled for most of the fight.
How awesome is that, that Marquez would go on to school Pacquiao from the 3rd to the 12th, not being able to properly breathe from that nose that was broken?

The shot from Pac in the rematch was a much more concussive shot. Marquez dropped like a ton of bricks going down. Luckily for Marquez, it came near the end of the round....the end of the round had Marquez going back to the wrong corner.

Marquez does'nt train in the high altitude of the Otomi Mountains, I dont believe he makes it out of that round.

I will note that Marquez sometimes gets a little too careless when he's finding his target too easy to hit.....the knockdowns in the Pacquiao rematch and the MAB fight are perfect examples of running into shots where he was almost having batting practice against them at the time of the knockdowns.......

Certainly Marquez would have to be aware that if he got careless like that and went for the gusto finding Arguello easy to hit.......unlike Pacquiao or MAB, Arguello could actually end it with a single shot.

I cant see however where Marquez would not be aware that Arguello could end the fight abruptly and put him to sleep with a single blow.

 

Based on what is Marquez more skilled than Arguello?

 

I don't even think Marquez would win at 126, let alone do it comfortably. What do you base this comfortable win on?

It's not so much the fact that Arguello has beaten a high calibre counterpuncher that has most here thinking Arguello will have his way with him, it's the fact that Marquez is very hittable, and often allows himself to get hit with a shot in the anticipation that he will land a better counter shot in return. That's simply a recipe for disaster against Arguello, whether at 126 or 130 or 135.

And as for Arguello being slower than Marquez, well I disagree. When Arguello goes for the knockout shot, he is even quicker than Marquez. Arguello varies the pace on his shots, as part of his way of setting traps for big punches to land. It took me watching the replay about 5 times of Arguello hitting Olivares with the left hook that knocked him out before I could understand why Ruben was laid out. That's how quick he was (or how slow I am ).

 

Believe me Scientist, I know and understand the caliber of the great Alexis Arguello.
He was a bit on the skinny side as a featherweight however. I think he could be pushed around in the exchanges against a naturally strong Featherweight like Marquez or say an Azumah Nelson.......fighters who were physically really strong featherweights.

......and you're right about the way Arguello varied the pace and intensity of his shots.....he would fight for a couple of rounds at about 60 to 70% intesity on his shots.......the opponent would fall into the trap of believing Arguello was losing the intensity on his punches, that he was tiring......and then Boom......
.......of course I'm assuming in my analysis that Marquez would have studied Arguello and known that, and vice versa with Arguello having studied Marquez.

Lets remember also that you point out that Marquez is hittable, but so too was Arguello.....in fact, they both have similar type defenses, subtle body, waist, and head movements.......I think both are underrated defensively, but these guys just are going to get hit because they're so offensively involved in their punching arsenal.
The thing is they both know when to back off, play defense, and make the adjustment when they're getting hit with frequency.
Both Arguello and Marquez were masters at making the adjustment from round to round.
How about that for a great fight, two chess masters who like the offensive part of the game, that would be a rarity as far as matchups are concerned.

You like Arguello and thats fine, but I just think its outright wrong to dismiss a fighter the caliber of JMM, especially in knowing there are alot of things he does better than Arguello and of course vice versa.

JMM's speed and quickness on the counter cannot be underestimated, and thats all that it really comes down to for me.


Height, reach, power goes to Arguello.......

Quickness, speed, and punching repertoire goes to Marquez......

This had all the ingredients for a great matchup imo.

 

Its close and I'd say they're similar in some ways. But I'd say footwork, combinations and countering are things JMM does better

 

I'll cop that. But Arguello had better timing, defense and balance imo.

 

1. No I dont think it would be comfortable, I wouldnt feel comfortable betting big on either men. What percentage of your walth would you put on Arguello if prime versions were fighting tomorrow?

2. I don't think JMM as easy to hit as you make out. Look at his 126lb fights and you won't see him hit too often. 3 fighters far quicker than Arguello have had him down yes, however the rest of the time all 3 had problems connecting. JMM has also shown amazing powers of recovery. I also dont think its a given that Arguello hits harder than Pacman. JMM als twice took big punches similar to the 1 that sparked Dirrell while on the floor but got up and fought back well

3. If there is 1 thing JMM trumps Arguello with its speed, Marquez has very much underrated speed combined with great timing. Arguello doesnt come close and a short left hook on a come forward brawler won't change that. Not that that means JMM has it all his own way, far from it