Roberto Duran VS Shane Mosley at 135

What chances?

I prefer to define a guy's style in terms of what his ultimate aim was. Duran was always a counter-puncher; that doesn't make him a defensive fighter. His counter-punching was instrumental to getting under a guy's arms and brawling inside, or making him miss and landing a heavy shot. I wouldn't call him a pressure fighter either, because he was never coming forward at all costs, never taking leather just to force his man to do something - a pressure fighter is someone like Margarito. He had a high work-rate, but was always looking to force and win exchanges above all else - characteristic of a brawler. I don't think that ever changed. Even when he was fighting at 154-160, he NEVER, NOT ONCE, backed off from trading heavy shots, and was even out-punching men next to whom he looked like a ballooned-up midget.

The only fight where I think Duran's fight plan was to do anything other brawl was against Hagler, where he stayed on the outside and stuck to simple counters, and was making Hagler look amateurish at times with that - although, even then, when Hagler turned up the pace, he couldn't resist getting into a punching match with the guy. (Hagler could have won the fight hands down if he'd had just attacked Duran - the old man didn't have the speed or stamina to keep up with his much younger counterpart.)

I'm not insulting Duran by calling him a brawler. Brawling is as highly skilled as anything else, and can involve the most demanding aspects of the sport, inc. counter-punching

Yes, Mosley was very good at all those things. But Duran has proven his ability to neutralise them. He can effortlessly slip a jab and get inside before the blink of an eye, before you can get off a combination. And as for the left hook - why do you think Duran keeps his right hand where he does?

Didn't Ray Arcel threaten to quit because Duran was refusing to get up and do roadwork in the mornings? Still, you're probably right.

Hearns effectively hit harder, was faster, and Duran was in bad condition?

He's certainly not as skilled as Roy - and I'm not referring to athletic talent when I say, "skilled".

All these arguments work both ways, you realise.

Ali's feet were much more important than anything else vs. Liston.

By the way, I never predicted a Duran shut-out here. I was expecting something of the order 11-4.

 

Duran was not taken many chances against Leonard II and III. I mis-typed.

Okay. Well said. I see it a bit differently:

Duran's style as a study in fistic evolution. It's on a continuum and while he didn't often lock himself into one style, he slid on the continuum. Duran-Leonard, Duran-Hagler, and Duran-Barkley emphasize different aspects of that evolving/shifting style. Hell DeJesus II vs. III does too.

Many saw him as a brawler with limited knowledge because of his ferocity. Many still do. Duran, we'd agree, was multi-faceted.

Why do you think Duran had to condition himself to keep that right hand up? Brown, and I'm speculating, told him to rub the right on his cheek to create a tick that would create a habit, that would help against those left hooks.

Duran has indeed coped with speed, power, legs, height and reach disadvantages, etc. But rarely in combination. There are not many fighters in Duran's 119 outings who combined demon speed with serious power. Duran's performances against that is mixed although I'm not discounting the other factors like age, and weight divisions, etc. I see Hearns as the most formidable of them, then Leonard ...had he fought Mosley, Mosley would have to be included in that elite group.

See? That spells p-r-o-b-l-e-m-s...

It was Freddie Brown. He'd pack his bags and leave and Duran would have to chase after him with promises to be good and run.

If you measure both Hearns and Barkley's power, Barkley would be harder puncher. The difference is SPEED. Hearns got him out of there because of Duran didn't see the shot and it was delivered like lightning. Mosley has speed that approached that. That was my retort to your statement about "Duran's getting a chin late in his career against Barkley." I am not insinuating that Mosley stops him because I don't believe he would -but you have to consider Mosley's speed, which is made worse by reach and height, and delivered with not a little power.

Duran isn't walking over this guy.

In terms of fundamentals, Shane is certainly more sound than Roy. I call that "skill" as opposed to things like speed, power, timing, coordination, and such which is more athleticism. Skill is taught. If you don't believe it then ask yourself why after youthfulness deteriorated, has Jones been so much more vulnerable than Hopkins.

The answer is plain. Jones still fights as if it's 1993. Think of skill as a tool box and athleticism as a magic hat. Jones hasn't much in the tool box and his magic hat is old... and empty.

Hopkins is a master-mechanic who applies that good ole' fashioned craftmanship that breaks you down.

...but then, I never even chose Shane to win here. You choose Duran with ease and so have the burden of proof.

If Ali just ran and packed powder in his punches, Liston would have eventually caught him and beat him into the basement.

But recall the original point:

"you are de-valueing the disruptiveness of speed and power. Speed kills and power is an eraser. These adages are not meaningless."

Well, the whole point of this exercise from my point of view is to encourage you to reconsider what Shane is bringing to battle here. He ain't going out easily. No way, no how.

 

Duran wins a spirted fight

 

I think Duran had to hold his hand against his right cheek because the unorthodox way he slipped right hands left him more susceptible to a follow up left hook. Duran slipped right hands by moving to his own right.

 

Duran was that good...UD or TKO late

 

Well this would be a very good fight, and Mosley would fight him on close terms thru the first 6 or 7 rounds, then Roberto starts to reach him more and more and start slowing the Young Shane down. After 8or 9 rounds Duran is hitting him from all angles and starting to school him, Shane shows a whole lot of heart fighting back but is starting to be outclassed and reapeatdly hurt, Duran tko 12.

 

A motivated Duran was just about unbeatable at lightweight. Mosley would put up a great fight but Duran would lower the boom on Sugar Shane for an 11th round stoppage.

 

Mosley TKO'D? If Forrest couldn't do it, Duran sure wouldn't either. Watch Forrest-Mosley again and tell me how many at 147 would have gone the distance after taking that beating...

 

I'd pick Whitaker to beat Duran @ 135, probably no-one else.

 

its hard for me to think of Duran as unbeatable, because so many people beat him

 

At 135-147 he beat every fighter he fought,and had just two losses pachilles.

 

For me it has to be Duran mid-late TKo probably between 8-10

 

duran wins this one

 

Is there some hidden footage of Shane Mosley getting TKO'd or something? There's no way that Duran TKOs Mosley. The real question is how would Duran deal with Mosley's combination of length, hand speed and power at 135.

 

At 135lbs there is only one winner

It would be a great fight but Duran would simply overwhelm Shane to a clear decision.