I got annoyed by the complete lack of respect Frazier gets in that other thread. So here is a list of top class heavyweights I think he has a better chin than. Joe Louis Larry Holmes Sonny Liston Floyd Patterson Ingemar Johansson Jack Dempsey Evander Holyfield Jersey Joe Walcott Archie Moore Ezzard Charles Ken Norton Max Schmeling Gene Tunney I think the gloves issue is a big debating point when it's come to rating a chin, so I won't include boxers who fought with ridiculously small gloves or bareknuckle. If Frazier is going to be slaughtered in less than 3 rounds, so are all the above. I feel I'm forgetting some and bare in mind I'm also restricting this to the elite of the heavyweight division.
I agree that the notion of Frazier not having a chin is a myth, and I'm not exactly sure how it started. This is an all time great champion, who in some 37 fights, and during the most competitive era in the sport, was really only taken out by one man. The one man I'm reffering to is viewed by many as one of the top 3 hardest punchers in the division's history. What's more, the loss was more styles related, as opposed to Frazier's abilty to take it or not. Lastly, he was no longer at his best, as he had documented health issues. Frazier had incredible heart, stamina and yes, even a chin. The one person I don't agree with on your list, as having a weaker chin than Frazier was Larry Holmes.
I belive Dempsey had a better chin than Fraizer. I tend to belive Tunney ranks over Fraizer in that department base on never being ko, and down only once. Of couse the long count fight.
Maybe we're both jumping to conclusions a bit too hastily here Hank. I mean afterall, Frazier never took a punch from a true hitting technician like Jack Roper, who had 29 KO's in 58 wins. :good
Holyfield.. LOL WOW. Yeah the same holyfield that ate all of foremans shots, when Frazier was devestated by them, even got punched up into the air by one of Foremans shots. And Age doesn't matter... punching power never dies.
Dempsey had a better chin, Marciano also, Louis had a slightly better one,Foreman went down vs Lyle(who was not really a BIG puncher aslugger but not a Puncher) Could Foreman take a Foreman punch, Jeffries had a better chin, not Lewis, not Patterson,not Johanasen, Primo, he got up also,I think 11 times vs J.L. and several vs Baer how many times did Lewis get up to win and How many did Tyson get up to win, how many did Lewis get up to lose and Tyson, yea he got up to lose but not for long
Spot on. It's the Foreman thing which started it i'd guess. I'd say that his chin is not as good as Liston's or Hollyfield's though.
No, because the difference Frazier and most other champions is that they'll take a step back, hold on or go the bycicle when hurt by a big puncher, whereas Frazier will always come forward with his take 2 to land 1 style. That's why he got knocked out by a huge puncher.
I feel that there is a somewhat crass tendency to asume that any fight between Frazier and a big puncher will be a carbon copy of the first Foreman fight. It is by no means a given that Foreman would have done the same to the Frazier of the fight of the century. I think a few variables triangulated on Frazier that night one of which was his stylistic disadvantage but others were his lack of conditioning, ring wear and overconfidence.
[FONT="]Mr. Jack, Tunney, Schmeling, Louis, and Dempsey fought with lighter gloves in general. If lighter gloves with less padding means it is harder to take a blow, and then we must take that into consideration when assessing the durability of the old timers. Even in the 50's, Marciano used to pack his fist tightly in a glove to the point wher eyou could see his knuckles in some photos.. Gloves from 6 to 10 ounces were common. Modern boxing gloves are heavier, but 12 or 16 ounce gloves though a mere few ounces more do not tell the entire story. Modern gloves are designed better, with more cushions. I can't see Frazier being more durable than Holmes, Holyfield, Liston, Dempsey or Tunney. Louis and Moore about even with Frazier. I'd give Frazier the nod over the rest. [/FONT]
:good :good :good Very Good Observation, Joe was strait in up down and around, he did not make Foreman reach in, or give him angles he fought George's fight
All I can say on the subject of Joe Frazier's chin is how many times did he get counted out. How many times did he hit the floor against Ali? Joe was one of the toughest heavies that ever entered the ring. A man who would do anything to win. Even against Foreman he never stopped getting up.
Joe had a good chin, his only problem was that Foreman was too big and hit too hard. Joe never showed the same fraility against the rest of the division, ask Ali and Quarry for references on Joe's durability.