Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston

We all know who wins. One round. Tops.

 

Oh, the 18" neck!!! Tyson's, Holyfield's, and even Michael Moorer's neck was thicker. Moorer couldn't absorb punches very well now could he?

Liston had a decent chin and he coud "absorb" punches well... just making a point about the 18" neck. Don't get carried away with that stat!

 

Also, don't get carried away with his 84" reach. When you're under 6'1" an 84" reach isn't as big of a deal compared to a man who is 6'5" with an 84" reach.

Remember Bert Cooper? He is only 5'11 1/2" (probably shorter IMO) but his reach is 78 1/2"... 1" longer than Holyfield's and 1/2" longer than Moorer's. His reach is 7 1/2" longer than Tyson's and 1 1/2" longer than Brian Nielsen's.

My point is... don't get hung up on these numbers.

Sure, Liston would most likely KO Johansson but Johansson has a chance to pull the upset IMO.

Johansson was strong, had good power, decent speed (quicker than Liston), and his chin generally held up... only Patterson beat him.

 

Apart from Henry Cooper, Ingo never met a puncher.Brian London had him down and out in the closing seconds of their bout.Ingo's resume is pretty thin at top level.

 

Regardless, his chin still was good enough to allow him to not get stopped by every fighter he faced except for Patterson 2 out of 3 times.

Again, I don't think Ingo was better than Liston... just getting tired of the overrating of Liston.

 

2 out of 3 times meaning patterson got the better of him. Liston destroyed that same patterson twice in round. just food for thought.

 

So, what's your point?

Ali lost to Frazier and Norton. Frazier and Norton were destroyed by Foreman (both brutal 2nd round KOs). What happened when Foreman fought Ali? Foreman must have stopped Ali in under 2 rounds, right?

Yeah, Ingo lost 2 out of 3 vs. Patterson... he must have sucked! Frazier lost 2 out of 3 vs. Ali. Norton did as well. Holyfield lost 2 out of 3 vs. Bowe.

Charley Burley, Archie Moore, and Joey Maxim collectively went 0-10 vs. Ezzard Charles... did they suck?

 

Machen lasted the 12 round distance vs. Liston and even gave him problems. Johansson bombed Machen out in the 1st round. Does it really mean anything?

 

1. "we saw how Liston weathered the storm from Cleveland Williams"

Eddie Machen weathered the storm from Cleveland Williams also.

2. There is more evidence that Johansson carried his power into the late rounds than that Liston did.

 

We all know that Liston Admirers are just a bunch of Size Queens.

 

I don't know about Saga or True--but The Police Gazette did. They didn't see it as an out fight, though. They picked Liston but speculated that Johansson might "pull a Schmeling" by crossing his right over Sonny's jab.

I don't think it is a given that Liston survives a big Johansson right. Eddie Machen's record indicates he was every bit as durable as Liston. Most of the big punchers that Liston fought--Williams, DeJohn, Folley, Patterson, Valdes--Machen also fought and NONE knocked him out.

 

I think Liston would win it but i dont think it would be an easy fight.In his prime i just think Liston would be a bit too good.

 

There is incidental, some would say extenuating, evidence that suggest Inggo might not be able to repeat the feat if Eddie were given a second crack at him. It seemed like an ambush to me, and the stories behind the fight intimate the same. I've always wondered whether or not Machen could be put ahead of Johansson on a hypothetical head-to-head list because of this; he does appear to have the more rounded skills of the two.

 

"It seemed like an ambush to me"

Ambush in a boxing ring? Johansson was the European champion and a top ten fighter.

As for rating Machen ahead of Johansson, Ingo not only ko'd Machen but he also ko'd Patterson. No way I would put Machen ahead if we are judging this on accomplishments. Otherwise, why even have fights? As for Machen having "more rounded skills", perhaps. But he didn't show the big punch in the big fights like Ingo did.

By the way, I think Johansson's victory over Machen is much less questionable than Liston's. Machen claimed he went into that fight with an injured right hand, and in fact he does not use his right hardly at all on the film. It is interesting that Liston had so much trouble with a one-handed fighter.

 

Leotis Martin sparked Sonny Liston, so its not out of the question that Ingo could possibly do that aswell.

Chances are, Sonny would pummel Ingemar, but even if unlikely, I give Ingemar a solid chance at clocking Sonny cold and knock him down a few times in the first second or third round, and then perhaps end up losing a war.

Sonny wins this, but if he's not careful, they may need two or three fights to settle the score, like Floyd did. :smoke