who did they ever beat ?

now lets see some fighters whom are not regarded ATG's in these forums :
Oliver McCall :
stopped : Lennox Lewis , Henry Akiwande , Oleg Maskaev , Bruce Seldon

decisioned : Larry Holmes (old) , David Jaco , Sedreck Fields ,

lost only by decisions (some were even very close) : Frank Bruno , Buster Douglas , Orlin Norris , Davarryl Wiliamson , Juan Carlos Gomez (twice , but mccall was injured in the second time and the first is regarded as NC , as Gomez was tested positive for PED) , Mike Hunter , Joey Christjohn

also stopped : Darroll Wilson , Yanqui Diaz , Francesco Damiani
also decisioned : Jesse Ferguson

David Tua :
stopped : John Ruiz , Michael Moorer , Oleg Maskaev
drew : Hassim Rahman

and tell me if these guys were easier to beat than the lightheavyweights whom gave trouble and sometimes defeated Liston : Darroll Wilson , Obed Sullivan , Gary Bell , Cisse Salif ,

lost decisions to : Lennox Lewis , Chris Byrd , Ikemefula Ibeabuchi

and byrd and ibeabuchi never beat tua . this is just on paper.
if they beat him , then also consider Tua TKO Rahman , but i won't.

James Douglas :
stopped : Mike Tyson
decisioned : Oliver McCall , Trevor Berbick
stopped by : Tony Tucker , Evander Holyfield , Lou Savaresse , Mike White , David Bey

lost decisions too : Jesse Ferguson
also decisioned : Dicky Ryan
also stopped : Mike Williams

these guys fought much more dangerous opposition than liston's all in all ,
two of them were even never legitimately stopped as professionals , yet they are not ATGs and Liston is ?

 

if he is dangerous then Darroll Wilson is a force to be reckoned with

 

somewhere about #30 heavyweight ever. maybe i overrate him a little.

 

in these forums mike tyson's legacy and record are up to debate and out of consensus , but every fighter whom once was the champion of the world is regarded as great , why ? because then there were no sanctioning bodies .
regardless the lauzy opposition he had .

i agree that holding a belt is not a proof someone is good , but so was the case in the past when the first champions avoided black fighters , was dempsey the best hw even of his poor time ? no.
and even if liston ducked no one , his opposition was weaker than marciano's.
and he had more physical advantages than marciano and still got in to alot more troubles and losses than marciano.

 

count (in no particular order) :
Ali , Foreman , Holmes , Frazier ,
Tyson , Holyfield , Douglas , McCall , Tua , Lewis , Bowe
Vitali Klitschko , Wladimir Klitschko
Moorer , Spinks , Byrd

16 till here and then you have all of these and more :

some might even consider : Marciano , Walcott , Charles and Moore above him
and there are the old farts' choices : Dempsey , Tunney , Carnerra
(a vitali klitschko like to some) , Corbett , Sullivan , Jeffries , Wills , Langford , Jeannette , Fitzsimmons , Jack Johnson

valuev should be higher than liston , he was never stopped.

and seriously , Jeannette , Langford and Wills just may have stopped liston with that fragile granite jaw of his.
P4P tony tucker may be below liston , but H2H ? who knows ?

and for a reason undisclosed to me everyone here will of course put Joe Louis above Liston , i did not even do it myself as i do not know myself.

now it definitely does not look like a borderline top 10 or 15 at least not to me.