Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston

i still do not know but based both on their mutual opponents in patterson and machen , and liston's physical advantage , i give liston a chance of knocking johnson out in the first round but i also give johnson the chance of stopping liston later in the fight and this is based more on their non mutual opponents.

 

Bad match-up.

Liston destroys Ingemar in 4 rds atleast.

 

1. I voted for Liston in this poll. I think he much the more solid fighter.

2. "I give Ingemar a solid chance at clocking Sonny cold"

So do I. Liston never fought anyone with a right like Ingo's and it is the right cross that a sideways fighter like Liston must worry about.

 

So what are you trying to say? Do you or do you not pick Liston to beat Johansson head to head?

 

This is irrational. Liston beat machen. Johansson lost his trilogy to patterson.

 

Johansson has a puncher's chance, because his right hand was a nuke.
But I think Liston most likely makes mincemeat of him, in quick time.

 

1. Don't you think part of the reason Ingemar Johansson knocked Machen out so quickly was element of suprise? Johansson made a career out of sandbagging his opponents. Machen fought him on european soil. He was obviously ill prepared for Johansson's right hand. He had no clue going in what Johansson was all about. I think when Machen fought Williams and Liston, he knew going in their reputation as big hitters. So he was more prepared. More cautious. Now this doesn't take away from johansson victory, but it does explain why Liston and Williams were unable to knockout a "well prepared, retreating, cautious" machen.


2. That is your subjective opinion. I think it is a mute point anyways, since it's highly likely johansson won't survive past round 5 against Liston.

 

I think Johansson's right hand is being overrated. Yes it was a very sneaky powerful shot, but I don't think it rates up there as one of the best in history. Ive heard some say Ingo's right hand better than Rocky Marciano's Suzy Q which is preposterous. Yet when fantasy matchups are brought up between Liston and Rocky, I never hear people say "o rocky has a chance because of his right".

 

Yes, exactly what I mean. Even Floyd was caught unawares after almost a year had gone by. Inggo was wise in disguising his most potent weapon, and it worked-- once against Machen and once against Patterson.

As for the theory I introduced, I don't subscribe to it myself if I'm being honest, but I'm throwing it out there anyway to gather insight as I think it's more than valid to question the victory. I realize I can only tenuously defend this at best, but it is something I'd like to explore here.

 

To which part of Charles anatomy are you referring ?

Liston is a better boxer than Ingo ,hits harder with his left hook than Ingo does with his right imo,and also had a good right of his own,plus a vastly superior jab.Add a better chin, being heavier , and stronger .I see NO WAY Ingo wins this.Patterson who had a good left hook knocked INGO into a near coma,Liston would decapitate him.

 

Ingo looks quite bad on film, frankly. But he was functional, perhaps a bit awkward as well, and has a record that suggests as much. Machen, Floyd and Cooper all looks very good me on film to me, and should be very tough opponents for anyone without a big advantage in some physical asssets, but Ingo is 3-2 against them, with all three wins coming by KO. That's not bad.

Of course, Liston is the favourite here. Ingo's chance is to frustrate him and land that right. That could happen if it's just another fight for Liston, but if you have both guys at their very best physically and mentally it most likely won't.

 

Who cares if they are the same height? Liston was a genetic freak. He has a foot in reach advantage. Not to mention he hits just as hard, is more technically skilled and durable.

 

Cooper looks very good on film? :huh

 

I like his perfomances against Ali. Not the most well-rounded or elegant fighter, but quick, aggressive, applies good pressure, has a good left and knows how to fight dirty. Looks like a difficult guy to meet, if not for his eyebrows. He's exactly someone I would expect to beat a fighter like Ingo, who boxes cautiously and likes to get set. But apparently...

 

"Floyd was caught unawares"

The film of the Johansson-Machen fight was shown on American TV before the Patterson fight. How could Floyd be caught unaware?

By the way, I remember reading an article back in the early sixties about Machen and what a devotee he was of boxing films, going back to Corbett and Fitz and Jeffries and Johnson. I think it is ridiculous to assume that he would not have studed films of Johansson ko's of Ten Hoff and others. He knew Ingo had a right hand.