Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston

Marciano to try to buy Sonny Liston

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...54079&dq=sonny+liston+ingemar+johansson&hl=en

 

1. Why should they fight in Sweden? Why does Ingemar get homefield advantage?


2. I see you refused to mention Liston challenged Ingemar Johansson in august of 1963...Guaranteeing Johansson a sweet purse of 2 million dollars to fight him.


3. In fact, Liston even challenged to fight Patterson and Johansson on the same night!

 

Johansson was not the same fighter after the Patterson losses in my opinion. The first KO loss against Patterson was savage, the kind after which you never truly recover. He never trained hard, but after the Patterson losses he didn't train at all.

I have most of Johansson's filmed fights and he was a legitimate fighter in my opinion and not exactly a "glass jaw". Patterson KO'd him, but Patterson with his superb speed found it easier to get to the fleet-footed Johansson than Liston would. Patterson's handspeed in the second fight against Johansson was unbelievable. For Liston it would take a couple of rounds to chase Johansson down, he wouldn't be able to land his big punches early.

Johansson was no Tyson but he hit like a ton of bricks with his right hand. He threw an average of maybe one right hand per round, and hurt his opponents each time he landed. Johansson however shouldn't be confused for an aggressive puncher, he was very defensive-minded and would only unleash his right if he knew he had a clear shot at landing the punch. One of his weaknesses was that he became reckless after hurting his foes, which is clearly displayed in his third fight against Patterson when he had all but KO'd Floyd.

Liston was clearly the superior fighter and deserves to be favoured over Johansson, but to say there would be no threat is an exaggeration. Johansson's right hand poses a threat to anybody.

Watch (2:10):

[dm]xpm4e_sonny-liston-vs-bert-whitehurst-par_sport[/dm]
Now imagine instead of Whitehurst this right hand of Johansson's:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReNxJnrvig4[/ame]

8:15

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJtGoVWYzUA[/ame]

3:00

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY2hmn7xQFU[/ame]

Listen to 6:10

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MecEKGw6LTc[/ame]

1:35

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNzttJyZcKE[/ame]

0:55

The man could hit, no doubt about it.

 

Johansson's right hand was not as deadly as Marciano's suzy Q. No way. I will never believe that as long as I live.

 

you have to give 1959 johansson a shot against liston. Both ingo and sonny were simular in the fact that neither had the stomach and focus to defend the title with the same fire and desire they showed on the way up.

floyd damaged ingo. even so their 3rd fight was a war. if floyd had "ingos number" why did he hit the deck so many times again with ingo? fitness let ingo down in that 3rd fight. he was much heavier than in the first fight.

patterson just did not perform against sonny. that guy realy had floyds number.

 

I don't know which was more deadly, but I do know that Marciano had a lot more going for him than the right hand. He also threw his right hand around 20 times more frequently than Johansson. Accuracy is a big factor. That's why Walcott was able to absorb numerous of Marciano's rights yet was completely knocked out by a single one of them that landed on the point of the jaw. Johansson didn't throw his if he couldn't land it flush on the chin.

 

That's your opinion. My opinion is London exposed Ingo's weak jaw. He always had one. That's why he fought like a scared chicken against Ed Sanders.

So,

How exactley is he supposed to defeat Liston if he doesn't train hard?

1. That's great to hear. So do I. Ingemar Johansson's career falls into my era of research. The worst thing I ever did was upload Eddie Machen vs Ingemar Johansson to this forum. i only did it because people were giving him no respect. Once I uploaded it, I tricked ESB into thinking Johansson was some kind of tyson. I wish I hadn't. Now people think he can fight with Liston.


2. Ingemar was a legit fighter. Like Patterson. But both those guys were no Sonny Liston. Neither could beat him. Liston was the best fighter of his era, hands down, and one of the best in history.

I disagree.


1. Ingemar Johansson has a history of fighting "scared" against big powerful opponents with a reputation.

2. Liston's far superior physical strength, and reach will offset johansson's ability to control the fight from both a distance and in close. Liston was a tremendous infighter for a man with long arms. He also knew how to draw his man in by controlling him at a distance with the left jab. Also, Liston's two handed attack with his devastating left hook(which was just as big a money punch as Ingo's right hand) along with his clubbing right hand will be no match for Ingo's chin to withstand.

3. Liston was not slow. I think Sonny had faster hands than Ingo(certainly the late 1950s version of Liston)..Sonny is not going to look slow out there, nor will he have trouble finding johansson. His brute strength and size alone will allow him to corner johansson and chop him into pieces.

Liston knocked that same patterson out twice in 1 round. Don't forget that.

LMAO, what was it some kind of super right hand that was untakeable? You sound like a Corrie Sanders fan describing the Super Southpaw left hand. I doubt Johansson had more power in his right than Liston's Clubbing overhand right.

How come no one is talking about Liston's left hook?

One of his many weaknesses. His biggest glaring weakness Liston would capitalize on is his weak chin. Patterson twice starched him. Even light hitting London nearly put him away.

 

even light hitting ali put liston away.....

 

The home advantage was unfair, which is why the fight was later scheduled to be held in Canada. Liston's license was revoked by the NBA and the fight couldn't happen. This goes against the notion that Johansson was afraid of Liston.

This doesn't sound like a man who is scared:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1074052/index.htm

That's what I was referring to with my last statement

"Later when Liston won the title, Johansson did "duck" Liston by retiring after he performed poorly against London and realized that he was no longer the fighter he used to be."

Johansson realized he no longer had it after the London fight and wisely retired. Can't blame him for that.

 

atsch


Are you sure about that?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZkFNdPkdI[/ame]


Not only was Liston a much better fighter than Ingo in every single way...Johansson was also tailor made for liston stylistically.

 

GreatA,

why are you defending johansson in this thread? do you or do you not think Johansson beats Liston? Its a yes or a no. No "what if" scenarios

 

1. Your comparing Brian London to Ali?

2. When did Ali floor Liston and have him practically out? I didn't see a punch land. I believe he took a dive. London on the other hand knocked Johnasson down so efficiently that when Johansson got up to his feet at 4, the bell rang and he was groggy out on his feet(saved by the bell)

 

its a one round loss. it is what it is. liston blew it against a lighter puncher than patterson.

 

1. Liston accomplished a lot more on the way up. Liston defeated much more Ring Magazine top 10 contenders than Johansson did. Johansson fought only 2 ring magazine top 10 contenders. Liston fought 6(and thats not including Williams, Valdez, Hunter who would all be top 10 within a year of fighting liston). Johansson's career record against Ring Magazine top 10 is a mere 2-2.

Johansson took on Machen and Patterson. He went 2-2 against these men.

Liston took on Machen and Patterson. He went 3-0 against these men.


Liston also took on other dangerous contenders like Cleveland Williams 2x, Zora Folley, Nino Valdes, Mike Dejohn, Wayne Bethea, Johnny Summerlin 2x.

Johansson only took on Henry Cooper.



2. The big difference lies in the talent level. Liston was bigger, much longer reach, much stronger, more powerful, better two fisted attack, better technique, more scientific in his boxing game, better jab, better defense(head movement/blocking), faster hands, tougher mentality, better stamina.....did i miss anything?

 

Young Johansson was around 180 lbs then compared to 220 lb Ed Sanders. He didn't fight Sanders any different than he fought all of his opponents in the pros, circling away for the first few rounds and trying to find a spot for the right hand. The Sanders fight tells nothing of Johansson's chin because Sanders didn't land a single punch.

A tired out of shape Johansson was knocked down at the end of 12 rounds against London, his final fight. There's only one man who "exposed" Johansson's chin as average and it was Patterson.

He's not supposed to beat Liston post-1960. I'd say that the relatively unknown Johansson who was determined to become the champion would pose a threat because he was under-estimated despite carrying dynamite in his right hand. If Liston treats him with the same respect he gave to Bert Whitehurst, who was able to land on him early, he could have some troubles. That is all.

Nobody thinks he is Tyson. 100% of the people here favour Liston over him. You're over-reacting to people saying that a hard hitter would stand a puncher's chance.

Johansson however has a better style to face Liston, because he won't try to engage Liston and he has a powerful right hand, the punch Liston is most vulnerable to.

He has a history of using footwork against Ed Sanders when he was 19 years old.

Hein Ten Hoff wasn't much at this point of his career but watch Johansson jump all over him:

http://svtplay.se/v/1371225/oppet_arkiv/ingo_knockar_hein_ten_hoff_1955

No one is claiming that Johansson has the advantages here.

Johansson had a quicker, more accurate right hand without a doubt.

Liston is the absolute worst match-up for Patterson that I can think of. Too strong on the inside and Patterson couldn't box with him due to Liston's much longer reach. The same advantages would tell against Johansson, but Johansson has the punch to hurt Liston and he would be looking to not engage Liston, unlike Patterson, which often frustrated Sonny (see Liston-Machen).

It's a tired example, but Machen went 12 with Liston and was KO'd in 1 by Johansson.

It was faster and more accurate which is important. If Johansson just threw it out, a lot of people could take it, but he only threw it if he had a perfect shot at landing the punch flush on the chin. Which is why he averaged around 1 or 2 right hands thrown per round.

Because everyone knows about it. It's far more interesting to look at Johansson's chances.