Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston

Yes he was. I don't think his age made his recovering abilities any better unless you mean something else.

Liston didn't have any trouble with Floyd at all.

 

Liston would have smoked Ingo in about four round tops.

 

Ingo would be about the best, and certainly most dangerous, fighter Liston ever faced pre-Clay.

 

This would be a blowout Ingo dont make it past the 2nd round. This should have been a public poll id like to see who the jokers are that picked Ingo.

 

"Being hit by Liston, was like being kicked by a mule.

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Sonny was the strongest man I ever fought and he was very tough. When I fought him

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but my reflexes were not there anymore."- Nino Valdes


Does that settle it for you?

 

How could he be better than patterson? Patterson twice knocked the **** out of Ingemar Johansson. Deal with it.

 

Learn to read. "About the best" and "most dangerous" do not equal best.

Jesus Christ.

 

Best means "The best". Floyd Patterson was the best outside of Liston. NOT johansson.

 

Seamus,

While we are on the topic of the best. Do not forget the best of them all

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A quote is not evidence. There's tons of quotes where what a fighter says contradicts what is on film. Maybe he was just being nice to Valdes.

 

1959 johansson had much beter credentials than big cat wiliams when he fought liston. remember wiliams had not beat terrel by then. wiliams seems to get too much credit as a danger man. I get the impresion people on here have more regard for wiliams than ingo. people say liston-williams was a 50-50 fight, why not ingo-liston?

 

Well, Liston beat Williams in 3 rounds then in 2 rounds in the rematch, so anyone saying they were in any way 50-50 is crazy.

I think Johansson was just as dangerous as Williams, or more so. (see what he did to Machen) .... BUT stylistically he's no better equipped to trouble Liston. In fact, with Williams being 6'4" and with a long reach and decent speed he posed a completely different set of problems than Johansson would. Ingo was just 6' and had quite a short reach.

 

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There is no doubt Liston had a deeper resume than Johansson and that he "cleaned out the division" is a cliche. But how did the two compare against the top ten in the year they won the title:

1962 Yearly Ring Ratings-asterisk for those Liston had defeated:

champion---Sonny Liston

1---Floyd Patterson*
2---Cassius Clay
3---Doug Jones
4---Ingemar Johansson
5---Zora Folley*
6---Cleveland Williams*
7---Bob Cleroux
8---Billy Daniels
9---Archie Moore
10--Henry Cooper

Liston had ko'd 2 of the top 5, and 3 of the top 10.

Ring Yearly Ratings for 1959-asterisk for those Johansson had defeated:

champion---Ingemar Johansson

1---Zora Folley
2---Floyd Patterson*
3---Sonny Liston
4---Henry Cooper*
5---Eddie Machen*
6---Billy Hunter
7---Roy Harris
8---Mike DeJohn
9---Joe Erskine*
10--Alex Miteff

Johansson had ko'd 3 of the top 5, and 4 of the top 10.

I think comparing Johansson to Liston like this shows that Ingo's march to the title was not as shallow as critics would imply. Besides the four fighters rated in 1959, he had ko'd former European champions Heinz Neuhaus, Hein Ten Hoff, and Franco Cavicchi, and outpointed former British Empire champion Joe Bygraves. Neuhaus had been in the yearly ratings a couple of times, and the others had been in the monthly ratings. Ingo had also outpointed trialhorse Archie McBride, who had wins over Nino Valdes, Bob Satterfield, and Willie Besmanoff; and trialhorse Hans Friedrich, who had wins over Rex Layne, Cavicchi, and Besmanoff. All told, Ingo had ko'd five men who were in or had been in the Ring top ten yearly ratings, and beaten eight who had probably been in the monthly ratings at some point.

 

1. I have the 4th edition of the boxing register. The only fighters Johansson ever fought who were in the top 10 at the time he fought them were Floyd Patterson and Eddie Machen. He sports a 2-2 record against them. In contrary, Liston went 3-0 against the Duo.

2. Let's face it. During the 1950s, the european heavyweight scene was fairly weak. While he did knockout Machen and Patterson, Johansson never took on other top American heavyweights like Zora Folley, Cleveland Williams, Nino Valdes, Mike Dejohn, Sonny Liston. It would have been interesting to see Johansson take on some of those fighters as they had the size and the punch to knockout johansson.

Interesting. Liston defeated SIX men on that list..five by knockout.

(asterisk on the men Liston beat)


It seems above like you are doing a little pick and choose numbers to make your point. You decide to compare Liston's performance against the Ring Magazine top 10 in 1962(which you failed to mention Liston knocked out williams TWICE making him 4-0) against Ingo's in 1959. Why not compare both in 1959? What about 1958. 1960. 1961?



I really am confused on what you are trying to prove above. You said it urself Liston has a deeper and better resume than Johansson. So why try to argue against your own opinion?