What is most important for a fighter who's primary style is a forward mover / swarmin

The last two are by far the most important. Nobodies chin and heart can stand up to continuous clean shots and what good is power and workrate if you cant land or get inside?

 

Was pondering this when I saw your post, l31, because a bud is training an amateur about-to-turn-pro with just this dilemma.

Think you've nailed the importance of all those things, not just one.

Once you've paid for the real estate, though, you better have the ERASER.

 

Just march straight in and let the left hooks go.

Maybe add in a few clubbing overhand rights to mix things up.

 

1. Defence / and footwork that helps the fighter get on the inside
2. Cutting off the ring / Ring Generalship

3. Stamina / Workrate

 

The bob and weave turned Frazier into a champion. Defense is critical. Stamina and work rate probably come next. After that, I'd say heart, which often comes as a by product of conditioning. (The ability to take a punch can sometimes also be improved dramatically through quality conditioning.)

Jimmy Cannon wrote that Frazier didn't really have the chin to support his swarming style after the first Bonavena fight, but that the Marciano in him made him train until he wore his conditioning like body armor.

Antuofermo wasn't fast of hand or foot, and had little power. But he was the best conditioned middleweight in the world during his reign, and even Hagler gassed against him a little. Vito was also a vastly underrated defensive fighter who took far fewer punches flush than one might expect from his appearance. (He had a way of subtly turning his head as shots came so that punches brushed past his face.) Butts were the cause of most of his bleeding. (He was guilty of using his head as a weapon as much as the other guy though.) When he did take a shot, his chin could stand up to it.

I'd have to think more about it. Process of elimination is the way to go here. What successful swarmers were lacking in specific attributes? Off hand, I'd suggest that finding one with poor stamina and a low work rate will be a challenge, while finding some with little speed or power will be somewhat easier.

 

To be honest you need the lot to be a great swarmer when Tua first appeared on the scene he appeared to have the lot power, chin, stamina, heart but it just shows that there was still a little piece of the puzzle that goes into making an all time great missing, he is still one of my favourite fighter though.

 

Stamina/workrate - impossible to do this style without it
Defense/footwork - otherwise you take too much damage coming in. Guys like Frazier, Chavez, Tyson had decent defense and head movement on their way in.
Cutting off the ring - otherwise you end up just following your opponent rather than getting to him.

 

There are too many combinations of things in the list. Defense/head movement/footwork are 3 seperate things.

The biggest by far for a swarmer is legs. They have to have quick feet and more importantly, the ability to bend at the knees and spring up. Once those knees go a little bit, they become upright and far easier to hit. And cannot close the gap to get in range to throw a punch with their balance. What you eventually see is the angle of their legs change as they deteriorate.They can be aggressive from the waist up and still use head movement and defense to get by, but those devastating results change when the knees go.

The ability to punch accurately while moving their feet goes as well. and the % of time spent on their toes really declines as time goes by.

It's a game of reflexes and once the legs go, the best way to compensate is with matchmaking.

 

On target!

 

Joe Frazier:

Heart
Power
Stamina

Henry Armstrong:

Stamina
Speed of hand and foot
Ring Generalship

dunno...

 

the reason why fighters become swarmers is because they dont have the speed,power, ring knowledge to beat there opponants so you have to increase your workrate to compensate.

stamina and workrate easily

 

That's not true at all.

 

Sun-Kill Moon style. Forget the subtelties.