Very good or great? Volume 1: Ken Norton

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boxed Ears, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    56,163
    Likes Received:
    10,595
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    27,674
    Likes Received:
    7,654
    I think norton was a great contender.

    he had a good style, was strong and a good puncher, he came along when there were a lot of great heavyweighhts but IMO he did not posses the same edge as the other champions. He beat ali but they were all very close fights. Tommy farr gave joe Louis a close fight, jimmy bivins gave charles a close fight and laughran beat max baer too. I dont think it fair to say norton was an ATG or that he could have been a linear champion in another era.

    As exciting as the 1970s were I think it benefited from the free colour tv generation and largly from the fact that Ali (essentially a 1960s fighter) had slowed enough to be in competative fights.

    I think after the final frazier fight ali was a weak (albeit experienced) champion ripe for the picking. Norton should have dominated that version of ali but muhammad conned and bluffed him into keeping it much too close.

    Norton was a great fighter, just not an all time great.
     
    Garrus and Kamikaze like this.
  3. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Messages:
    11,604
    Likes Received:
    290
    Knockout losses to Garcia, Foreman, Shavers and Cooney are devastating to his legacy. He failed to stop an unprepared and out of shape Ali with a fractured jaw over the last ten rounds of their first fight, followed Muhammad around for the first several rounds while letting a retreating Ali do all the punching in their second fight, failed to get the job done in their Yankee Stadium rubber match against a badly faded post Manila GOAT, and got dominated over the first ten against Holmes.

    The limited Shavers and Cooney would have easily become champions at his expense, and Foreman would have quickly regained the title if Ken had dethroned Ali in their third bout. (Big George impressively stopped big undefeated cutie Dino Denis in four shortly after Ali-Norton III, and that was probably his best performance between Ali and Young.) After Ali-Norton III, Muhammad won at least one title defense Ken could never have survived in turning Shavers back.

    Norton could never have become much more than a one and done transitional champion at any time in his career. Shavers, Foreman, Lyle, Cooney and Coetzee would have always had too much firepower for him to cope with. He's destined to be remembered as the only heavyweight champion to never win a title fight. He was very good, but absolutely not great, and no, I do not buy him as a hall of famer.
     
    Garrus likes this.
  4. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    38,042
    Likes Received:
    7,560
    He was a very good fighter, Ken Norton, but of course not great, and you know that too.
     
  5. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    19,229
    Likes Received:
    257


    :good
     
  6. SteveO

    SteveO MSW Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,255
    Likes Received:
    14
    Could have used a stronger chin.

    But in all fairness, guys like Shavers, Foreman, and Cooney destroyed a lot of good and great fighters.

    I would have liked to see Norton get in there with Frazier.

    Norton had a style that was great for some fighters, and not so great with others.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,597
    Likes Received:
    27,270
    He was great against slicsters and defensive specialists.

    Perhaps one of the best of all time at nulifying this stype of fighter.

    Also, I think that he would almost certainly have become a lineal champion if people had not been able to sidestep him at crucial points in his career. There was a verry short period where he probably was the best heavyweight on the planet.
     
    Kamikaze likes this.
  8. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Messages:
    23,670
    Likes Received:
    2,155
    Ken was a very good fighter but not near a great. Ken would always lose to the grade A puncher
     
    choklab likes this.
  9. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    15,756
    Likes Received:
    101
    good but not great. but he should really shut his mouth about beating Ali. he only beat him once in my opinion even if the third fight was extra close.
     
  10. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Messages:
    8,314
    Likes Received:
    499
    Do you think Ali should've shut his mouth in general then?
     
  11. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    15,756
    Likes Received:
    101
    well, at least Ali could back up his trash talking, Norton couldn't that's the difference.
    But at times I think that he shouldn't have said the things that he said.
     
  12. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    5,065
    Likes Received:
    6,932
    Overall, he was very good but not great...in my opinion.
     
  13. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    28,760
    Likes Received:
    84
    I want to say great but I can't. His losses to punchers, and the way they occurred were devastating. Thus, I will call him very good. But going 2/3 with Ali and going toe to toe in a war with a young Holmes is top notch stuff. No doubt. He's up and down. When he's great he's great, but when he's not he isn't. And this is a style thing, therefore very good seems better. To be great, you have to be great against all fighters and styles.
     
  14. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    25,180
    Likes Received:
    8,683
    Came along in a very strong era of heavyweight boxing. I'd rate him just a notch below Ali,Frazier,Foreman and Holmes. Ken was a very good fighter,though.
     
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    25,452
    Likes Received:
    9,437
    He was a great fighter with a shaky chin ... it only failed him against huge bombers but the way he froze up goes a bit deeper ...