Max Baer vs David Tua - who would have won?

Baer did have a good chin but I don't think it was as good as Tua's. Baer also had good power but not like Tua. Louis stopped him in 4 rounds (no shame in that) and he was still close to prime if not still prime... he had just lost the HW World Title about 3 months prior. His only other KO losses were to Lou Nova (LKOby11 and LKOby8 toward the end of Baer's career).

Back to Baer's chin. Louis was the first to KO Baer, but who was really there to test Baer's chin prior to Louis? Schmeling? Carnera? Do you really think they could hurt Tua? He'd walk right thru those guys and knock the crap out of them.

Past prime or not, Tua ain't getting stopped by a guy like Lou Nova. Nova was 6'3" and barely over 200Lbs. He had decent power and skills but even an old and out of shape Tua would make him **** in his trunks if he hit him in the body.

Baer's overrated by many IMO. He was viewed as the next great thing when he won the HW title but he lost it in his 1st defense to a little HW named Jimmy Braddock. He looked good beating Schmeling KO10 and Carnera KO11 but much of what is said about Baer's "greatness" is built off of "what could have been". I challenge you to judge him off of what he actually did or didn't do in the ring!

 

Let's look at Tua's resume-

5'10" with a 70" reach and 225-245Lbs. Awesome chin, awesome power in both hands. Decent speed and workrate. He carried his power right up until the final bell and he had decent stamina.

51-3-1 (43) and has never been dropped (Rahman hit him after the bell in the 12th round and dropped him, Tua thought the fight was over!), no KO losses.

Tua has fought-

John Ruiz KO1

Darroll Wilson KO1

David Izon KO12

Oleg Maskaev KO11

Ike Ibeabuchi L12- very close fight

Hasim Rahman KO10 and D12

Obed Sullivan KO

Robert Daniels KO3

Lennox Lewis L12- clear win for Lewis but he couldn't hurt Tua... if he couldn't hurt Tua I doubt Baer could

Danell Nicholson KO6

Chris Byrd L12- somewhat close fight

Fres Oquendo KO9

Michael Moorer KO1

Shane Cameron KO2

Friday Ahunanya W12

12-3-1 (11) vs. these 15 men and never came close to being stopped or even dropped.

 

Max didn't just have a terrific chin, but underrated defensive skills. Some of this is in evidence when King Levinski tried to sucker punch him in their exhibition. During that exhibition, Maxie took the Kingfish out with his overlooked hook. Against Schmeling, he showed a stiff jab, and surprising mobility when on the retreat from Carnera. Max is also the last heavyweight to win over the 20 round limit, earning a lopsided verdict over old rival Levinski. He did have his moments against a peaking Louis. He nearly dropped Galento with a neat duck and counter right out of the corner. The Farr rematch was a solid decision win over the championship distance.

 

What were these fighters rankings when he fought them?

 

great thread and good posts.

all the talk of baer's chin aside, his punch seems to be getting underrated here. baer was a harder puncher than lewis. maybe not as technical or accurate but certainly as powerful

the problem with baer was motivation. the best baer, let's say against carnera, was a beast. but who knows what one will show up on fight night. at the end of the day, we have to assume the best of both shows up.

the best tua, like and trim at let's say around 212-219 from the ruiz/ibeabuchi era vs the best baer. in this fight, baer doesn't move and doesn't outbox in the traditional sense. that wasn't his style. but baer could be fluid with his punches, had a solid chin and would use his reach advantage.

i see a sloppy war with baer winning a very close UD based on taken the close rounds with his right hand. they would sting each other but no knockdowns and tua's left would land just not enough

 

Who cares? Some of them were at their best, some past prime, some considered contenders, some pretenders. I'm not saying he beat all-time great HWs, just stating what he did do. He had some good wins vs. some good fighters. He only lost to very good fighters and never got the crap beat out of him. His worst loss was to Lewis... Lewis is a top 10 all-time great HW IMO. His other losses were at the least competitive... L12 Ibeabuchi (very close) and L12 Byrd (he didn't get totally dominated).

Baer was clearly beat by smallish HWs like Ernie Schaaf (clearly beat Schaaf in a rematch, almost stopped him in the last round), Tommy Loughran, Johnny Risko (clearly beat Risko in a rematch, W10), Paulino Uzcudun L20, Jimmy Braddock L15, and Tommy Farr L12 (clearly beat Farr in a rematch, W15) among others.

Baer beat King Levinsky twice... W10 and W20. Levinsky was fair. He was a small HW with fair power at best. He had plenty of losses before he faced Baer.

Like I said, he looked good vs. Carnera and Schmeling... what else ya got?

 

Good points but there is a bit more to it ... Both Tua and Baer were limited. Both could and were outboxed .. If you look at Baer, I feel he had more talent but was the bigger underachiever ... based on actual accomplshment I like the Tua of the Ike fight over the Baer of the Schmeling fight

 

Baer by UD or late TKO

 

I firmly believe that David Tua strong as he was, would never survive the coil spring punches that the absolute prime Joe Louis dished out to Max Baer in 1935...Baer took dozens of Louis,s trip hammer blows before the tko in the 4th round....Another thing,Max Schmeling had as poerful a right cross as any heavyweight in history...Fast and accurate' it was...And Baer absorbed Schmeling's right hand,and kod Schmeling...Max had a concrete chin alright....

 

Max dstroys Tua

 

Sounds good but reread your own post, "If you look at Baer, I feel he had more talent but was the bigger underachiever" That's my whole point!!! So many think Baer "could have" been so much better, but he wasn't. He did what he did and that's all you can judge him on.

I don't want to hear about what he did in the gym or an exhibition bout. It doesn't matter if Joe Louis said he hit harder than anybody he faced. None of that matters. Louis stopped Baer in 4 rounds and had no trouble with him. Baer landed a few right hands but never had Louis in trouble. He dropped Baer twice in the 3rd and Baer got saved by the bell. In the 4th he dropped Baer again and the fight was over. Power means nothing if you can't land it clean.

Ever notice that a fighter often talks up the people he beat more so than the people who actually beat him? Briggs said that Foreman hit him much harder than Lewis did... Briggs won a close decision over Foreman and did not go down in the fight. Briggs went down 3 times vs. Lewis and was stopped in the 5th.

 

Why? How?

 

I like Schmeling but he was hot and cold. He had good power but he was a small HW with a fair chin. 6'1" with a 76" reach and about 190Lbs. He was stopped 5 times and not just toward the end of his career. From 1932-1934 Schmeling went just 2-3-1 (2). He beat Mickey Walker KO8 and Walter Neusel KO9. He lost to Jack Sharkey LSD15 (questionable decision), Max Baer LKOby10, and Steve Hamas L12. He drew with Paulino Uzcudun D12. 56-10-4 (40) overall and 2-2 (1) in HW World Title fights.

 

Schmeling is head and shoulders above Tua though. In the 9 years he was ranked in the Top3/5 - so much for running hot and cold - he was only beaten by Baer without having beaten his opponent aso. Should tell you something.