Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Marvin Hagler

My money is on Hagler, but Ray is not without his chance. Theoretically, If the other Ray can do it why not Robinson. I think that it will be a good close fight, but Hagler (assuming he doesnt get psyched out and try to box him like he did to leonard early on) will eventually catch him wear him out and probably knock him out in the later rounds.

And just so i can get my controversial statement in (hope it doesnt derail the thread) but i am of the of the opinion that Robinson doesnt quite have the chin that Ray Leonard has and would not necessarilly take the punishment that Leonard did in his fight with Hagler, as that fight wore on. I think Hagler can triumph over the original and better sugar despite his difficulties with the copy.

 

How do you figure Leonards chin being better than Robinson's?

Robinson got stopped once due to heat exhaustion in over 200 fights many of which when far past his prime,Leonard once he slowed up post 82 showed he could be caught and hurt being floored by Howard,Lalonde,Hearns x2,Norris x2 and stopped by an ex Jnr Lightweight in Hector Camacho.

Robinson could be careless defensively due to his willingness to mix it up and he did get dropped on a few occasions but his chin was absolutely top notch and I'd say much stronger than Leonards to be honest.

 

Robinson was fighting HOF fighters when he was in his late30s, arguabley past his best and was fighting contenders on the wrong side of 40 and was never KOd so i cant see how his chin can be questioned.

As much as i respect the marvelous one, i just have to go with a prime SRR doing enough for a pts win. Cant see any knockdowns as BOTH have great chins and im sure Hagler will have his moments in the mid to late rounds with his pressurising, but i reckon SRR UD 9-6

 

Both at their very best, I assume. Robbo sure had the well-roundedness to hang with anybody at MW, and he would make a fight of it here. Hagler, arguably the best MW of all-time, could usually get his man out of there sooner or later. At peak condition, I think he can accomplish that feat here, late rounds.

 

I am not questioning it, just saying i dont think it is as good as the other Ray's.

Sugar Ray Robinson had serious trouble with the power of Jake LaMotta, who i dont think was as good or hard hitting as Hagler. In fact, LaMotta would have knocked him out under modern rules, but he was saved by the count in one of his fights. Under modern rules the count continues and Ray loses. In another fight, he was dropped for a 9 count (not just a flash knockdown).

Against Artie Levine, Ray was dropped badly and struggled very badly, until his power bailed him out and stopped Levine. And of course there is the Rocky Castellani fight where Ray was knocked down for 9.

Now dont get me wrong, there are some excuses, there were some great punchers he was facing, he always recovered like a champion and closed the show on all but Lamotta, And he fought that often that really it is to be expected that he would get caught sometimes. The problem is that of all the fighters that caught stunned and hurt him, none were Marvin Hagler.

I get the feeling that if Ray had trouble with Lamotta s power, he would have fits with Haglers. And if Hagler drops him for say a 9 count, i get the feeling that he would be near impossible to keep from finishing him off. Leonard did last the distance against Ray, but he ended up in hospital after the fight. I get the feeling that Robinson wont last the distance if he takes the same sort of punishment that Leonard did, and Hagler will hurt him and finish him.

 

What years does everybody see as Robinson's best at middleweight?

 

I would just about give this to Hagler. Maybe on a wafer thin decision. Robinson was better on a pound for pound basis,but his prime was at welterweight. Still a great middle though. Hagler's edge on physical strength would tell on Ray during the later rounds. Case could easily be made for Sugar Ray,on the other hand. It's THE dream middleweight match up.

 

From the title winning fight with Jake La Motta up to the two Randy Turpin fights.

 

So Robinson was knocked down twice in a six-fight series with an ATG MW who outweighed him by over a stone, yeah he must have had a glass jaw.

Also I don't know where you get this "Robinson would have been counted out" from, he was sitting on the floor waiting for the count to run down and got up as soon as the bell sounded.

The fact that Robinson dominated and stopped Lamotta when he was actually something like a 160-pounder says much more about his firepower and potential against Hagler than anything else.

 

Precisely.

 

Interesting albeit a little bold preview.
I think if Robinson could be outworked by smaller (Basilio) and lesser fighters than Hagler (the rest of his MW losses) then why couldn't Hagler beat him. I do not think it will be by stoppage and not even one-sided but Hagler is just too strong and tough for him.
Hagler feasted on former welterweights.
Leonard is not a good example of how to beat Hagler he is a good example of how to survive Hagler and I am not saying someone won the fight (scoring such close fights is idiotic , they should be regarded either draws or no decisions).
This is also my opinion on Hagler against almost every other MW (Monzon , Jones).
Also their records tell that a prime Hagler was the more dominant MW , as SRR's MW reign was not 1:1 with his prime.

 

Criticism is welcomed, but honestly it gets frustrating sometimes. Who in this thread has said Robinson has a glass jaw? atsch Why not at least keep it to what has been said.

Incidentally, you do realise that in Marvin Hagler he will be fighting an ATG middleweight, who with due respect is a hell of a lot better than Jake LaMotta in pretty much most facets of the game, dont you.

You might be right. But he waited until the count got to 9? Lucky the bell keeper was on his game (wonder if he sounded it early or not?). Normally you would at least get up on 8.5.

I agree that his firepower is something Hagler needs to worry about. It bailed Ray out of a losing situation on more than one occassion and who knows it could do it again. I just dont think it would.

 

I bring it up all the time, but i made a thread on this sometime back, Robinson would do well though because he can hit Hagler with his combos right off the bat imo. Hagler would have to pressure him and i think he'd realise that early. It would be breathtaking for sure.

 

Robinson has big skill and speed advantages over Hagler just like Leonard except Robinson is a better puncher and better inside. Hagler is stronger with an iron chin and his pressure would make it hard for Robinson, much like the Lamotta fights, but like the Lamotta fights his skill would win out.