Sonny Liston (1959) vs James J Jeffries (1904) - who would have won?

Liston KO3, its a no brainer, Liston is the destructive KO puncher, the technician, the better boxer. Jeffries is so defensively flawed that you know you'll hit him if you throw any straight punch with your eyes closed, the mans going to eat it. He can't be missed by a straight precision puncher and a destructive precision puncher like Liston equals lights out Jeffries. His chin keeps him in it for a few rounds. Jeffries would be thankful for the colour line if he had a Liston in his era

 

I honestly don't think that you know who Jeffries was beyond his name and a vague idea of his boxrec profile.

 

It's a place to discuss boxing history.

I was just point out that your statements - "I dont see Corbett going 23rds with him ,I dont see Choynsky going 20 rds with him, I dont see a 37 year old Fitz going 11rds, nor Sharkey going a total of 45rds." - dont mean much because you've never seen any of those guys do what they actually did, nevermind getting into the realm of hypothetical match-ups.

If I made a prediction on Mayweather - Pacquiao, but you knew I'd never even seen Mayweather and hardly seen anyone who he'd ever faced and was limited in my knowledge of him to a few things I'd read, I doubt it would mean much to you.

It's hard to match-up fighters we've seen a lot of against fighters we've seen nothing of. There might be a few exceptions, for example Greb, who seems to have beaten everyone in real-life.

 

Hes the guy who got owned by a 168lber for rounds and got schooled by a 70yo 180lber with 2kos who hadnt won a fight in 6years, thats him right?

Sorry I know I havent got his career set on DVD like you janitor

 

The nearest thing to a career set on DVD for Jeffries is the Pollack biography which recounts all his fights from multiple eyewitness accounts.

You could look at what really happened in these fights and perhaps your interpretation of them might change somewhat.

 

I take it you have no opinion on the result of this, beyond the fact that you have no opinion.
I wonder what you get out of this site:huh

 

Lets look at each in turn:

Corbett

If Sonny Liston had to fight Eddie Machen over 25 rounds as Jeffries did with Corbett might he have had to pace himself?

Either way, is it really inconceivable that Machen caries the fight plast 20 rounds?

Choynski
The Jeffries who fought Choynski was less experienced than the Liston that lost to Marty Marshall if we are honest about it.

Would you pick Marty Marshal over Joe Choynski?

I suspect that Liston might not have gone 20 rounds with Choynski at this stage of his career, and not for the reasons that you think.

Fitzsimmons
You might be right here, but we are still talking about an inexperienced Liston against a shifty oponent who knows how to counter and avoid punishment. This might be more complicated than you think.

Sharkey
The one time that Liston took a fight with a top contender with one of his arms effectivley out of action, he lost, albeit to Muhamad Ali. Personaly I give Jeffries all the credit in the world for taking on a challenger like Sharkey in this condition.

 

Well, I'd favour Jeffries, only because people say how tough he was and fought through all injuries and never quit, against Liston, who quit.
But for all I know Jeffries might have been made-to-order for Liston, so it'd not something I'd argue about.

It's interesting here. People post some interesting stuff.
I dont think it's compulsory to take these hypothetical match-ups too seriously though - especially ones in which we discuss the abilities and styles of fighters of whom we have a completely "blind" knowledge of.
I think you know what I mean.

 

Thats what I was thinking.

 

An intersting analogy.

If we superpose the careers of Jeffries and Liston then the loss to Marty Marshal corresponds to Jeffries draw with Gus Ruhlin.

Liston had 8 fights at this point and Jeffries probably had about the same, but with more experience of fighting over longer distances.

Listons win over Marshall in the rematch would correspond to Jeffries win over Joe Goddard, with the Choynski fight falling between that and the previous Marshall fight.

 

Which parts of the following arent true:

1. Jeffries was hit allot, indicating little defense
2. Jeffries defensive skills and boxing skills look poor against Johnson
3.Jeffries was outboxed for many rounds by Fitz and Corbett both many years past their primes
4. Jeffries was never hit by a big hitting 210lber

The only footage we have of him is the Johnson fight. Yes he was past prime but he clearly had a ready made up excuse when he blatantly lied about losing 100lbs before the fight. The pictures show he was never in the realm of 330lbs. Being past prime doesn't mean your not strong in clinches and it doesnt mean you lose defensive skills.

Is it not fair to say Jeffries defense is substandard in comparison to other champions? Is it also not fair to say his chin has never been tested against a puncher in the realm of a Sonny Liston?

 

Practically everyone was outboxed by Liston to, bar Ali, meaning Jeffries is up against a better boxer. Also Jeffries has advantages in youth/reach/strength. He was also a supposedly a great athlete.

I also dont rate a win over a past it Corbett, with lesser skills, smaller, less power, far less experience with a far worse resume as highly as a master boxer like Walcott, who was coming off career best wins

Anyway most people pick Liston to KO Marciano, despite the fact Rocky's chin is far more proven against punchers than Jeffries and unlike Jeffries was never stopped