Sonny Liston (1959) vs James J Jeffries (1904) - who would have won?

Liston would win this one. Hard when the figthers are so far apart competing in almost different sports.

Jeffires is a great of the game but Liston is just too formidable for a come-forward figther like Jeff.

Jeffries would come on in the mid-rounds, and he'd have some great moments, but he'd have taken too much early on and would lose a decision or late stoppage.

 

San Fran Chronicle, who covered the fight and had several pages on the pre-fight camps, the weigh in, the fight, and post fight remarks.

 

1. Bare in mind Walcott beat Joe Louis in everyones mind but the judges, Charles twice, Elmer Ray, Bivins. I dont think you can say he choked in his biggest fights.

2. The best 2 punchers Jeffries faced were 168lbers, the amount of mass/strength they can possess doesnt make them big HW punchers. Marciano faced 210lb Joe Louis arguably the best HW composite puncher ever (past prime but so was Fitz), Archie Moore (dont need to expand on that and he was way bigger than Fitz/Choynski), Walcott (not known as a puncher but he was clearly a great puncher, the Charles KO was 1 of the best ever and Walcott was a solid 200lber). I wouldnt be surpised if Charles/Layne were bigger better composite punchers than anyone Jeffries faced.

What attribute other than size/strength does Jeffries have over Marciano? Probably wrestling, but in terms of a fighter and puncher Marciano likely trumps him

What happened to your theory that a 20fight veteran wouldnt be experienced enough to get in with a 50-70fight veteran

 

1. Everyone whos seen the extended highlights here agree Walcott won. They are only highlights but would they ignore the good work of the champion, highly doubtful

2./5 Usually people who havent boxed seem to find size irrelevant. Mass xSpeed = Power, if you can put more forced/muscle/weight behind a punch its heavier/harder/more powerful. Now many big men don't have the ability to put all their weight into punches, dont have the P4P strength to create that much more force or the explosive speed to generate the power. But the likes of Moore/Louis/Walcott all di

Hence Julian Jackson doesnt hit as hard as Mike Tyson. Yet Jackson may well hit as hard as Fitz

3. I know Louis was past it but Fitz was to by the time . Fitz wasnt rated as big of a puncher as Choyski either by contemparies so all this 'biggest P4P puncher' myth is clearly bull****

4. Maybe it was easier for Fitz to KO those fighters because they were so poor? The era certainly isnt on par with that of the 40s/50s

6. Your right Walcotts Ko of Charles was **** poor. Or are you talking about Charles not being a great offensive force and big puncher? Yep pure bias

7. Hey your the 1 who says 20fights is insufficient to compete with much more experienced men regardless of skills/physical abilities/amateur experience. Therefore stand by your logic in your picks unless your the illogical hypocritical type

 

1. Eddie Machen weighed 195lb and stood 6' tall. Sharkey stood 5'8 and weighed anywhere from 175-183lb. That's a good 15lb machen had on him.


2. Sharkey slugged it out with Jeffries. Machen, Whitehurst boxed very defensively in their fights with liston, almost survival type fights. When Patterson engaged liston, he got knocked out.

 

That's fair enough ,no don't take it too seriously ,but it can be fun.:good

 

Say what you want. Wiliams would be by far the biggest fastest most powerful opponent jeffries would have ever faced

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucXgHJ0s8qg[/ame]
Valdes does not look shot to me right here. This was right around the time he fought Liston. Valdes was rated # 2 annuelly in the Feb 1959 Ring Ratings. Even after the loss to liston, Valdes went on to defeat future top 10 contender Brian London. Valdes was past his prime, but still plenty dangerous with his power. he would have been the biggest hardest hitting opponent jeffries would have ever fought.


"When I fought Liston, I could still hit very hard"- Nino Valdes

There are sources that list Dejohn anywhere from 6'3 to 6'5. if you take a look at photos and video, he looks more towards to ladder.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_s1ohwBbJA[/ame]
Powell stands 6'4. I would say Dejohn looks just as tall as him.


Dejohn was rated # 7 in the world when Sonny Liston fought him. Jeffries never defeated a rated contender with the size, and power of Dejohn.

1. Henry Clark was rated # 9 in the world when Liston knocked him out. Bethea was also rated # 8 in the world when Liston fought him. Try again.

2. Some of these men may have been journeyman, but they were still signifigantly bigger than the men jeffries was taking on.

3. Zora Folley weighed in at 199lb vs Liston. I would classify that as 200lb, unless you want to get real nitpicky. In fact Gus Ruhlin was the same size as Folley.

Amos Johnson BEAT Leotis Martin. Johnson was one of liston's comeback victories. Perhaps you should rethink your above statement.

Source?

I find this hilarious. most sources list him as 186lb. In his fight with maher he weighed in at 190lb. So if he indeed did weigh in at 210lb vs Jeffries, he was most likely hog fat.

Munroe also couldn't knock out his sister. Dejohn, Valdes, Williams were huge punchers

1. Patterson, Folley, Machen all ranged from 6'0-6'1 195-200lb. This is as big as the biggest fighter jeffries ever beat. and signifigantly bigger than sharkey, choynski, and fitz.

2. I would classify Williams, Valdes, and Dejohn as very big wins during his career. These were the 3 biggest punchers of the era, and liston dismantled all of them.

Wrong.


Mike Dejohn was rated # 7 in the world when he fought Liston. Wayne Bethea was rated # 8 in the world when he fought Liston. Henry Clark was rated # 9 in the world when he fought Liston. All 3 of these men weighed above 200lb.


You can spin it, criticize it anyway you want. Bottom line is Liston defeated bigger fighters, defeated more ranked bigger fighters, and defeated better bigger fighters on a whole.

 

Mcgrain i disagree with you bud. I thought Walcott definitely won the Louis fight. Walcott outboxed him, outsmarted him, outjabbed him, knocked him down 2x, and made louis look foolish at times. John Garfield, sat LIVE in the stands at Walcott-Louis I, take note he was a BIG joe louis fan, and he admits it was one of the worst decisions of all time.

 

One thing. Louis fought alot of younger men in his comeback who can be classified as "Very defensive"(Bivins, Agramonte, and Brion)...These type of fighters are very hard for an older fighter to knock out, especially if these men are just fighting to survive. When Louis fought men who engaged him(beshore, Savold) he busted them up and knocked them out. He put Savold's lights out with 1 punch, Marciano couldn't even put savold down.