Sonny Liston (1959) vs James J Jeffries (1904) - who would have won?

Are back to deleting most my post and ignoring the logic I see :yep Its funny how this has all developed from the point that fighting a 167lb weed is comparable to taking Sonny Listons punches

1. Most people on this forum don't think for themselves. Compare Moore and Fitz resumes, Moore has fought the more skilled better boxers and plenty of big men himself. The big men in Fitz time were rare

If Fitz fought in the black murderers row like Moore he might not have made it out alive

I dont even rank Moore as that big a P4P puncher, he hits harder than Fitz though, but resume wise Moore's is leagues above

2. Stupid question but as you asked. Jackson proved to be the bigger punch than McClellan, GMANs chin got him through that 1, GMAN ko'd HW champ Tucker in sparring. But obviously he didnt fight at HW

3. Yea you're figured it out now, Moore is a fat ass Isnt that Durrelle hes in with about 4years after Rocky. Either way Moore was in great shape and had bolder type shoulder

4. Whos talking about evolution, people were poorer in Fitsz day, hence they didnt grow tall, a true 200lb man was a rarity, its logic but you can't process that through your thick head

5. Competition has no bearing on level of power now Are you trying to sound dumb?

6. According to McGrain, Circumstances = Pseudo Science, ok

7. The 1910 100m world record holder proved himself at the highest level, sports move on

8. Competition is irrelevant, we know you believe this. I'm sure you believe Jesse Owens is the fastest man of all time to

9. Everyone knows the 40s was a golden era, I don't really think you believe otherwise. Things are compared to prior eras, Charles era missed Louis, since his demise. Jeffries era was compared but this was near the beggining of 'world championship boxing', which is used in its broadest possible sense given black men couldnt compete for it. So there was little to no standards. There were less fights with top contenders fighting each other, there were less big men, there was a smaller talent pool. Its simply sub standard

10. Its blatant illogical hypocracy, you believe experience is important or you dont. Obviously Jones had 100s of fights but you see that is irrelevant to his ring craft. But Corbett and Jeffries with their careers of 13 and 22 fights learnt the game inside out right ****WIT

11. I don't think if I told you this 100 times, you'd have the sense or integrity to consider it, Fitz fought in the worst HW era of HW boxing

12. GMAN ko'd HW Champ Tucker in sparring, who was way bigger/better than any of Fitz opponents. Gman didnt wear small gloves sapping his power like Fitz

13. Because they're wearing rose tinted glasses and in love with the era? All those men Fitz sparked weren't any good bar Corbet, who had 13 fights, no power and was a small cruser, forgive me for not busting a nut

14. See, repetition helps you, I'll have to keep trying with you

15. Just checked, yes I initially put Layne, keep up grandad

16. Being a nerd doesnt make you any better than a general forum poster. At least most the general forum aren't dumb enough to think Jesse Owens is faster than Usain Bolt, which is the equivilent to what you're thinking, and yes I know what your coming back with, but you're wrong

Oh and getting a Jeffries ass licker to back up your point, good move

See how I took the novel approach of replying to all your points and not ignoring points because I wasn't smart enough to answer. Take note!!!!! (had to remove images/smileys to post)

 

I would rank them so yes, though apart from them there was not much quality about imo.
With hindsight Fitz had regressed,he did not train faithfully, drank heavily, and did not think much of Jeffries, he was 36 years old conceding 37lbs ,and had not fought in 2 years.But he would have been perceived as the number one at the time.
The way I see it Jeffries 2 best wins are over older inactive smaller ex champs,.Whatever way you slice it, that is how I see it,and both gave him very hard tussles.
I like Jeffries I think he was the best heavyweight prior to Johnson ,but his record is built on smaller, older, retired men making comebacks ,and a one dimensional ,come forward slugger , 6 inches shorter and 32 lbs lighter, who was there ,standing at the finish of both fights.
He never was proven against a man of comparable physique with top power ,who also possessed a world class jab .
Liston, in contrast met many men his size, and some with heavy duty power,and kod them, to boot.

 

Liston KO's Jeffries under any post-Dempsey ruleset.

 

Did GMan really KO Tony Tucker? When was this?

 

In keeping with the convenient number scheme...

2) As one of the best punchers of his generation, McClellan may well have equaled Fitz's power. It would be strange if nobody in the history of boxing around 167 pounds ever hit as hard as Fitzsimmons. With that being said: How do you believe that McClellan's power measured up by heavyweight standards?

8 ) Owens raced under different conditions and with different equipment. Shoes, track, starting marks, etc. etc. all make a difference. I'd still pick Bolt (obviously), but the difference isn't as enormous as you think.

10) Pretty good point. With that being said, Corbett fought far more often in amateur and exhibition matches than his boxrec record suggests.

12) Technically, we're arguing about Jeffries' chin, not Fitzsimmons' power. So...Let's assume that Fitzsimmons hit about as hard as Gerald McClellan, and that he only KO'd heavyweights because he wore tiny gloves. Here's the catch, though: During their fight, Fitzsimmons unloaded on Jeffries with the same tiny gloves that he'd used against all of his other opponents, and Jeffries didn't drop. You can't have it both ways. Either [Fitz + tiny gloves] was a genuine puncher, or he wasn't. If he was, then Jeffries' chin is tested against a top puncher. If he wasn't, then how did Fitz KO cruiserweights?

 

Liston befuddles and steamrolls Jeffries in any era under any ruleset you can name.

The reasons be legion.

 

The people who are predicting a quick Liston knockout are not even prepared to acknowledge Jeffries chin.

That is one varianble that transcends the stylistic arguments.

A chin is a chin.

 

MMA rules? :hey