Wladimir Klitschko has a very good resume..where does it rate in history

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010.


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  1. OBCboxer

    OBCboxer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No it's not. Did you watch the second Lewis-Holy fight? That turned out to be a pretty close fight. Holy looks so much worse in the Ruiz trilogy.
     
    OBCboxer, May 6, 2010
    OBCboxer, May 6, 2010
    #16
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I lend him a reluctant pass. OLD FOGEY and Chris Pontius have shown that Lewis fought more punchers and contenders than anyone since Ali (about 18 months ago) so I'll let him have that one.

    And i'll reluctantly point out that Wlad has also failed to match his top contender for a good deal longer - Vitali. It's hard, but facts are facts. Wlad hasn't been tested by the #2 HW of his era. Lewis was ducked by his first and then beat his second. Wlad was his third.
     
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    #17
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Prove it. Are you saying Lennox "ruined" Holyfield? :lol: It's not like those 2 fights were particularly wars. Holy had fought in much more gruelling fights previously. Fact is by 1999, Holy's workrate and combination punching had dropped dramatically. His legs were gone. Holy who fought Lennox and the Holy who fought Ruiz were roughly the same age.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    #18
  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Sure,

    but this would have been a top puncher combined with oustanding boxing skills. This equals a legacy defining win. Wlad would have argueably been lennox's best opponent with his skills, size, power, and jab. And don't say Vitali, because we all know Wlad is the much more talented of the two. I don't think Lennox necessarily needed him at the time, but in retrospect, A lennox victory over Wlad in 01 would be looking huge for his all time legacy.
    Wlad certainly earned the right to challenge lennox.

    Ok that's fair. Then bottom line is Lennox never beat any of the 3 best heavyweights anywhere close to their prime. Yes one ducked him, the other paid him to step aside, and the third fought him while way over the hill, but facts are facts right?

    It still remains Lennox never beat Bowe. Bowe threw his belt in the trash, but Lennox still doesn't have his name on his resume. Bowe trounced a younger better holyfield easier than lennox did with an old one. This might have been a tough one for lennox had bowe showed up in terrific shape.

    A fight between lennox and a early 1990s holyfield would have been a very tough one for Lennox, given how much trouble the 1999 holyfield gave him.
    Holy might have outworked him.


    Lennox proved himself the best heavyweight of the era based upon body of work...but he never really established that marquee signifigant win that he could have gotten over a ATG in his prime.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    #19
  5. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    Great resume lol . Best point a 12 second to go ko over Chambers , definatley up their with Lewis :patsch
     
    DonBoxer, May 6, 2010
    DonBoxer, May 6, 2010
    #20
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There's only so much any fighter can do.

    There might be something to this, but Lennox is not on trial here; the question is, does his combination of resume, achievement and skill exceed Wlad's - it does.
     
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    #21
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Yes it does. Clearly. I guess were getting off track, but the main debate we were arguing here is just how good was Evander Holyfield still in 1999??

    2ndly to get back to the main topic...what kind of win/wins does Wlad need to take his resume to Top 10 status?
     
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    #22
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Two wins over Vitali would have him pushing it!
     
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    #23
  9. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    win over vtali and haye gets him close maybe and then he needs to pray for a decent contender to beat then retire
     
    DonBoxer, May 6, 2010
    DonBoxer, May 6, 2010
    #24
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I need something tastier personally. As much as I would like to see Wlad spank Vitali, I just don't see the fight ever coming off. So we have to look elsewhere. There's something about David Haye to me. The way Haye landed that 1-2 on Ruiz in the first round, I havdn't seen a one two that fast sharp and powerful in many years from a heavyweight. Haye with his speed and power is also a bit of a stylistic nightmare for Wlad. Maybe this is the legacy definer for Wlad. How impressive is a win over an undefeated top contender(olympic champion) like Alexander Povetkin for you?

    , I am hoping some dominant force comes out soon, wipes out the divison, then has a mega classic pay per view fight with Wlad. We need it badly.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    #25
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It will never happen. But as unfair as it is, it does impact Wlad. The best thing that could have happened for Wlad was Vitali staying retired. Now he can never meet and defeat the #2, or multiple #2's.

    What made Rocky's reign strong? He didn't fight in the TOUGHEST of eras, but what he did was meet the BEST every time. That was denied to Wlad in that his brother was the #2. It's not fair - but it is true.

    Imagine if he had scooped up 4 #2's along the way?
     
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    #26
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think he has definitely earned a place in the top 15.. He has for the most part, unified the title, except for a strap or two that have purposely been kept out of his reach. He has convincingly beaten a long list of very good ( but not great ) challengers. There are few greats who can claim to have only lost 3 times in nearly 60 fights, and still looked as though they were prime by age 34. The 3 defeats that he sustained, are bad ones and will always be touched upon by skeptics when comparing him to other champions. I will say however, that there are not too many fighters who could have undergone such bad beatings and come back to improve to a level of greatness - something that I believe is commonly overlooked when discussing Wladimir Klitschko. So how will he end up? Only time will tell..
     
    mr. magoo, May 6, 2010
    mr. magoo, May 6, 2010
    #27
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    To get a place in my top 15 baed purely on resume, he would need better wins than;

    Walcott
    Schmeling
    Tunney
    Charles
    Patterson
    Jackson
    Langford


    Has he done that?
     
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    McGrain, May 6, 2010
    #28
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Walcott: NO. Walcott in my estimation has one of the better resumes in history both in quality and quantity, especially if you count Louis I as a win(different debate). Wins over charles, ray, bivins, johnson, murray all in there primes far and away trump Wlad.


    Scheming- No, but it's close. Schmeling's win over louis is by far a better win than anything wlad has done, but wlad's overall body of work is better. Schmeling did knockout a bunch of rated contenders, and defeated Jack Sharkey also. i give max the slight edge.

    Tunney: Yes, Wlad's work is better. Tunney had less than 10 fights at heavyweight.

    Charles: No. I think Charles defeated better quality, and like wlad, charles has wins over numerous top 10 fighters. Wlad is missing that one win over an ATG like charles has(Walcott).

    Patterson- Even. Patterson the slight edge in quality, Wlad the edge in Quantity.

    Jackson- I like Wlad here. Especially if you don't consider the Corbett fight a win. Jackson never got to add Sullivan to his resume.

    Langford- Ummm... NOO.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    #29
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    How is this for my updated list
    This content is protected


    1. Joe Louis
    2. Muhammad Ali
    3. Sonny Liston
    4. Lennox Lewis
    5. Rocky Marciano
    6. Larry Holmes
    7. Mike Tyson
    8. George Foreman
    9. Jack Johnson
    10. Joe Frazier
    11. Harry Wills
    12. Jack Dempsey
    13. Evander Holyfield
    14. James Jeffries
    15. Jersey Joe Walcott
    16. Wladimir Klitschko
    17. Sam Langford
    18. Floyd Patterson
    19. Ezzard Charles
    20. Max Schmeling
    21. Peter Jackson
    22. Elmer Ray
    23. Riddick Bowe
    24. Gene Tunney
    25. Jack Sharkey

    First HM: James Corbett
     
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 6, 2010
    #30
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