Joe Frazier vs. Rocky Marciano

Allthough frazier was a top 10 all-time great fighter but he didn't have marcianos power. Very rarely did frazier ko an opponent with 1 punch like rock did. Also, frazier was a pretty much a 1 handed fighter but rock was a two fisted bomber.

 

Rocky knocked out every single 200lb + fighter he ever fought. Frazier wasn't knocking these 200lbers out early either. Big guys like Mathis, Ali, Bugner, Bonavena all went many rounds with frazier.

 

Must I ask : And that list includes what world clas fighters ? atsch

This is where Marciano debates go off the deep end.

 

I favor Frazier---for the umpteenth time.......

MR.BILL

 

Joe Louis was rated # 2 in the world at the time. Whatever that means.

 

Nothing, he was shot. Although nobody knocked him out since the Schemling fight (I'm assuming that's Hegrant's position).

 

****! Here we go again........... Joe Louis of 1951 and at age 37 and 213 pounds, actually threw back the clock a few yrs back going into that October fight with Rocco Marciano up in New York........ In my belief, that version of Joe Louis was still world class, considering the weak state of the division in the early 50s....... But at 213 pounds and age 37, Louis just couldn't out-last the fierce and peaking 28 yr old Marciano in '51........ Elementary my dear Watson............

MR.BILL

 

Yep. An underdog Beating the Number 2 rated heavyweight contender in the world, who outweighs you by 35, and has 3" on you in height, means nothing. :roll:

 

Listen, I do criticize rocky for not taking on more world class big men. This is why I don't have him higher than 5th on my all time list. But he did prove himself against ONE world class 200lb + heavyweight. One is better than None. I def would have liked to seen Rocky take on guys like Baker Valdes Henry or Walls. I think it only would have added to his resume.

 

A little hard Henry, none of these fighters were ready for Marciano at the time he retired. Cus said his decision to go to Heavyweight was based on the exit of Marciano and Floyd had just lost a close one to Maxim in 1954 and was still fighting at 170-178 until the Moore fight where he came in at 182lbs, Liston was a 12 fight novice who had just lost to Marty Marshall in 1954, Ingo had 11 fights at the time so you are being unfair.

I wonder if you use the same measuring stick vs Larry Holmes, who for some reason or the other did not fight 5 co-champs in his own era and never re matched a tough fight, for some reason I doubt it.

Sometimes a guy takes a dislike to a certain fighters style and his opinion is based on that. A lot of the smart boxing minds I know appreciate Marciano's subtle strengths and obvious strengths. Then again you have a guy like Buddy McGirt who loves JJWalcott and thinks he could upset the best but does not think a lot of Marciano

I remember the great trainer Freddie Brown who told me you will never see another Marciano, He was the best and explained to me why.

Joe Frazier, Ali, Holmes, Dempsey, Louis, Walcott and Moore and Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore and Foreman all put Rocky high in the ATG and it was not because he died, it was because he was great.

Marciano was a freak and a rare creature, he was small but had some of the greatest Heavyweight power ever, and was relentless and could get you late and there was no quit in him, a rare package. He was never hurt in a fight and against pinpoint power punchers and boxing masters who made other fighters look crude.

There are few that pick hairs but some have a fart in there head instead of an opinion

 

Not so sure, If we are looking at Foreman hitting a guy that would punch back it may be a different story. The first so called puncher Foreman fought was Lyle and he was lucky to get out of that fight. Lyle could hit but not an explosive puncher. Foreman did not fight the Bonavena's or the Quarry's and after the Lyle fight I could see why. Frazier was staggered by Manuel Ramos before he took him out and Ramos only won 5 of his nest 30 fights. He was dropped by Woody Goss and he was dropped 2 times by Bonavena and 8 times by Foreman and staggered many other times in fights even by Ali after the 1st fight., to his credit he got up every time. I love Joe Frazier but Rocky is all wrong for him.

 

I knew Teddy very well, he was a good friend of a Friend of my family. I was a young man but used to call Teddy or stop in at his office at MSG and he always got me the best seats and I had a lot of conversations with him.

Teddy was a master promoter and was promoting Frazier in the garden. Teddy was a big fan of the old time fighters and he loved Louis and Marciano and also loved Benny Leonard, Barney Ross but if you asked him Ken Buchanan was great also because he had Ken in the Garden and built him up to a big attraction in N.Y.

Teddy was the best promoter I saw in my life, he knew how to build the next main event on the under-cards of big fights. Teddy's type of promoting is a lost art.

If Teddy had Marciano to promote you would hear praise for Marciano, Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey who he loved

 

I once again, respectfully disagree.

Most Historians that rate him in the top 5, rate him that way because of his record. I talked to many and they said that if he lost to either Lowry or LaStarza, they would have him out of the top 10.

I still have Rocky in my top 10, BUT I have Frazier just a little bit higher, BUT I also respect your opinion as well.

 

I respect that too, BUT I think I will take Teddy at his word.

I just got back from Trenton, NJ as we had another all-girl show and it was very good, really. They came from all over and as far as North Carolina and even England. I had to ring announce all 15 bouts so it's time to get some rest.

By the way, are you or have you ever done anything in boxing. Besides all the other things I do, I ring announce almost every Amateur Boxing Show in New Jersey. I have done close to 500 shows and never made a penny.

Again, I respect every ones opinion.

 

I dont think any of the big men of the era deserved a shot before the smaller better men. You got to remember big men were not so acclaimed back then because of there losses to smaller men, Willard, Carnera,Buddy Baer, the best of the big guys back then lost, Bob Baker was KO'd by Moore and Satterfield, Walace by Charles, Billy Gilliam lost to Charles, Nino Valdes lost 2 times to Moore and also to Harold Johnson and then Satterfield, James J Parker 6"3 and 215 was KO'd by Moore, Bernie Renalds and 6"2 Dan Bucceroni who was beaten by Lastarza.

If Marciano would have fought the bigger less talented guys, we would be hearing from the hair-pickers today on how he avoided the cute boxers and pin-point punchers

Remember Rocky fought his # 1 contender 5 times out of 6 defenses and fought his number 2 contender as a tune up.....How many Champs can match that