The Greatest heavyweight Champion ever: Period.

Yes Joe Louis was bothered by boxers looking to survive...Every puncher looks awkward til they catch up with their elusive prey...And so did Louis. He stalked his man,never throwing wild punches and thus preseving his tremendous power in the late rounds, if needed...Louis didnt look great against Bob Pastor in the first fight but kod him in the second bout.Louis eventually caught up to the fleet and tough Billy Conn,and kod Billy in the 13th round, in1941... The point is he eventually ALWAYS got the job done, before the final bell, and that is what counts in boxing....
One other point, yes Ali had a good chin,and I should know as I saw the first Ali/Frazier fight in MSG,in 1971...But Ali never faced the prime Joe Louis who threw COMBINATIONS, with blurring speed and accuracy...As said before ,no human being could survive such a leveraged flurry and survive, including Ali....Louis had a powerful jab,had tremendous two handed punching power, and CARRIED his power for fifteen rounds if necessary...Ali won many squeakers in his prime, had close decisions, while Joe Louis obliterated almost all his opponents, when Joe was in his prime...Yes ability trumps glitz, and Joe Louis Kos Ali, for sure....

 

So a man who has never been knocked out is now 'for sure' getting knocked out. Excellent.

 

Muhammad Ali. For the reasons that you mention Tommygun. He only lost to Joe Frazier and Ken Norton when he was only a little past his best. The other three losses happened when he was way past it. Although Larry Holmes would have been a tough one at anytime for him.

 

Ali.Great ring savvy,seemed to feast on the big hitters,Liston,Williams,Foreman etc.Had a great love for his sport,wasn't motivated by the money,but by the challenge.He adapted to the fighter's style better than any heavyweight champion.Had everything except the devastating ko punch.Made millions of dollars for himself and others.Because up until he came along,Dempsey,Louis and
then Patterson's first fight with Liston,I don't think there were many million dollar fights.

 

Two points
1 Ali in his first fight with a good journeyman Henry Cooper came very close to being ko'd as can be, thanks to Angelo dundee and the glove bit..
2 Every fighter, by your logic was never knocked out, until he is knocked out..And Ali never faced a fast devastating combination puncher as the Brown Bomber..Once Louis hurt a man ,the game was over. as Louis was the greatest finisher in history...
3 nothing is for sure, but I meant most likely...

 

Some people seem to don´t get the thread. It´s not about who was the greatest fighters out of the champs but who was the greatest champion. This means who was the best during their reign. Ali was certainly greater than Marciano for example but as a champion he was not. My Top10 hw list certainly looks different to my Top10 hw champion list.

 

Welcome to the Classic Forum.

 

...what about Rocky Marciano?

 

Evander Holyfield IMO.

Beat Tyson , Bowe , Holmes , Foreman , Moorer , Rahman , Ruiz , Mercer , Douglas and Outboxed Valuev at nearly 50 years old.

 

Ali was 21 years old, had 18 professional fights, yet still rose off the canvas to stop Cooper a round later... If you consider this to be the best version of Ali, then you might as well put Louis up against the man who lost to Leon Spinks as well..

And how many of Louis's opponents ever survived the power of George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Earnie Shavers and Joe Frazier all in the same career?

I don't think there is anything " likely " about the probability that Louis would stop Ali at all... His heart, chin, stamina, conditioning and ability to both avoid and take big shots is by far and above beyond anything that Louis's best opponents were capable of, and Joe did not always stop them either..

 

I think Louis does have a better chance of stopping Ali than any other opponent Ali ever fought because of Louis's finishing ability. I think Louis could definitely do some damage if he had Ali reeling like Frazier did in the 11th round or against the ropes like Foreman did for 8 rounds. However I'm not too sure if Louis ever manages to get Ali in such trouble. With his counter and combination punching it's possible though.

 

Burt, you could say the same thing about Louis. He never ever faced anyone near Ali's ability and speed, where as Ali did box, and beat some all-time Great punchers like I stated before. As far as Cooper goes, the time between the rounds were only several seconds, not minutes like some people have stated.

Excellent points!

 

I like Joe Louis by late knockout over muhammad ali, while down on points. Ali's slight technical flaws will all come back to haunt him against the most precision puncher of all time. But it wil take Louis a while to figure them out.

 

You could argue that Billy Conn was more skilled as Ali and not that much slower though. He was also much smaller.
Ali fought and beat atg punchers, I think the most of all heavyweight champions but none was a finisher like Louis.
It´s splitting hair actually.

 

Conn was an excellent Champion BUT he did loss to Young Corbett III, Solly Krieger beat him decisively and Teddy Yarosz. Conn is most likely the closest thing to Ali that Louis ever fought and he was approx. 40 pounds less then Ali. He also never had a punch to speak of and he actually hurt Louis in I believe the 12th round and almost dropped him. I know Ali wasn't the Greatest puncher either, BUT he was a lot better then Conn was.

Walcott would be next, BUT again he was no Ali.