Wladimir Klitschko has a very good resume..where does it rate in history

A beltholder, at best of Jimmy Ellis-esque level i guess.

I do feel sorry for him sometimes. He always comes across as a genuine nice person and doesn't want to be marketed as a beast. I doubt that he liked being called an alien and a freakshow when he just wanted to do what he loves: to box.

Management decides everything for him.

And there were rumors that Lennox was gay and living that lifestyle. Even if this (Sonny drinking) is true, i fail to see how it enhances his legacy.

Yeah well, you think someone is going to look as good against Ali as he does against Bethea? An old Holyfield looked pretty good against Savarese, but when he stepped up in fighting Ibragimov, he lost every round and looked like his reflexes were shot.

You have claimed that Patterson:
-is one of the best technical heavyweight in history;
-is one of the fastest heavyweights in history.

Explain to me how someone with those assets can get annihilated in a single round, not once, but twice, by someone else who is aging badly, i.e., getting slower? He may have had 7 professional rounds in 3 years, but that is why boxers spar! You may have reports of Reddish going slow to make him look better, but the reports that i've seen are talking about how Liston was looking his awesome self and how he was training like a machine.

Marshall was not a ranked heavyweight.

He was briefly ranked as a lightheavy. Only once during his career and for less than a year. Sorry, but he's not one of the serious players at that weight and era (or any).

If he hadn't beaten Liston, no one would know him now except for a few experts.

You can say whatever you want, but in the end he did score that knockdown.

Lewis fought Gary Mason, a Brittish heavyweight with a 90% KO ratio and no losses in his 14th pro fight. He didn't get knocked down and didn't lose to him. He gave him a career ending beating. And Mason was a full fledged heavyweight, not a lightheavy.

Before 1995, Lewis was a slugger with fast hand and huge punching power, but limited skills otherwise. I don't think many will deny this. He would improve to become a much more complete boxer in the years following it.

Note that i don't claim Lewis to not be in his prime for that fight. He was. Just not his peak, like Liston vs Clay.


And Liston's most likely age, going by the census as well as what most encyclopediae say, was 32 when he faced Ali.

 

1, Who said it wasn't serious. It just can't be done with a legal punch as the eye is placed back in the skull. The only way to get at it in a boxing match is to thumb the man. Is that what Liston did?

2. You can suffer a detached retina just from problems within the eye, such as the eye compensating for nearsightedness. Happens.

3. Bottom line here is I would stick to Liston being ahead on the cards or knocking Martin down, not trying to give him credit for causing a detached retina, which could be the result of the most vicious fouling if he did, a previous injury, or just a natural fault within the eye.

 

Mendoza says: Ah, but you listed 14 people, not 13. So your math was wrong.

My point was Vitali has beaten three alphabet champions, and been avoided by Valuev and Haye.

 

If you watch the Lewis Mason fight you can see Lewis's athletiscm but you can also see him loading up on the right like a professional boxer should never do it wasn't an impressive display and McCall and Steward took full advantage of this in their fight.

 

Maybe i didn't phrase it clearly, but the suggestion was that Liston was a heavy drinker, therefore his losses should be taken with a grain of salt (?). What else was the reason to mention it?

My reaction is: even if he has alcohol-induced losses, how is this something positive to mention?

 

12 pages, damn! that's a lot to read at work

i love wlad but i'll put his resume in the "best of the rest category"-a step below the top tier of louis, ali, holmes, lewis. it rates above or at least even with the other true lineal champs.

above tyson, just a touch below holyfield (still not sure about his resume, great wins but very inconsistent at times), above liston, above patterson, etc.