Joe Frazier vs. Rocky Marciano

Bruce Lee beats em both.

 

They were great Champs and would be rated highly, an older Floyd Patterson did well against the group that Frazier fought, Ellis (most felt he won, beat Bonavena, Drew with Quarry and beat Chuvalo, I think Charles, Walcott and Moore could beat that group ( Moore vs Quarry may be close).

I watch that left hook uppercut that Walcott threw vs Charles and I think Frazier would be easier to hit than the experienced Ezzard

Chuvalo would lose to all of them, Moore,Walcott and Charles

Ramos and Foster would have been stopped by all 3 in the Heavyweight division

Frazier did well beating Ali in the FOTC but Marciano would have been a tougher fight for Ali because Rocky had 2 hands and a more awkward style than Frazier to time for a counter punch. I feel Marciano was a better rhythm breaker and had more power than Joe. Stamina was excellent for both men but the 2 fisted puncher has the edge in wearing down the opponent. We could only speculate about that outcome but look at Floyd and the way the older man handled the late 60's early 70 heavyweights and he was 37 when he beat Bonavena. I dont think Charles, Walcott, nor Moore would be lost in that era and Marciano would be a standout in any era.

 

Everything is just opinions, and I know that but in my opinion Frazier would have beaten every opponent that Rocky fought (most experts agree with that) and I can not see Rocky doing the same against Joe's opponents, especially Ali (most experts agree with that too). This is one of the main reasons that I rate Joe over Rocky.

As far as the left hook that Walcott KO'ed Charles with, yes that was one of the Greatest punches in history, BUT that was just a once in a lifetime punch. He never landed another one like that again. I know he knocked down Rocky with a left hook but it still wasn't the perfect punch he landed against Charles.

Both are Great fighters and no one can take that away from either of them, we just have to agree to disagree.

 

I disagree. Walcott pre meditated that punch. He knew exactly what he was doing. Perfect plan and Execution. This was not some miracle punch. Walcott set marciano up the exact same way and landed the exact same punch. Difference is Rocky had a chin of steel and got right back up. Walcott said "After I landed that punch, i walked to my corner, and I looked back expecting rocky to be out cold on the floor, and instead was shocked to find this guy on his feet coming after me"

 

Fair enough. I would like to end with one more remark, though. On most expert agree that Rocky couldn't beat Ali: Ali himself often mentioned Marciano is the hardest opponent for him, when discussing his predecessors.

 

If that was the case how come he never did it again? That punch was one of a kind and Walcott stated that himself. Plus the punch that Walcott landed on Rocky didn't have the same leverage on it.

 

That is what he stated in public I know but was that what he really thought. I know many people that are close to Ali and they said that wasn't so. I really don't know who to believe but we can only give our opinions. I respect you and all the rest that believe that Rocky would beat Joe, BUT I have to disagree.

I don't know 2 boxing Historians that would agree to an all-time top 10 list, so I guess we will never all have the same opinions.

 

Some in this thread saying Joe was only a one handed fighter. Sure, he's known for his left-hook, one of the best in history. He did have a decent right hand, and it's wasn't as insignificant a punch as some on this forum say. He banged Quarry pretty good with the right hand in their rematch, as well as landing some good right hands against Ali in all three fights.

 

Because Rocky got up? Walcott went celebrating thinking he knocked Rocky out. More of a testament to Rocky's chin.

 

Past-prime Joe developed his right hand better, but would you take that version against Marciano?

 

Ali, a pretty good Frazier expert, stated he believed Marciano was better than Frazier.

Not that this view should be gospel, but it's intriguing, as intriguing -no, extraordinarily fascinating- is this clash of kindred warriors. Frazier was called "the black Marciano."

I'm not ready to make a pick. A bit of brainstorming:

a) Frazier had a swift, powerful right to the body, that would explode on a stationary target. On the other hand, Marciano is credited as a two-handed powerhouse, but his left seems a bit overrated. Goldman had to develop it from scratch. In an upclose battle, it's probably the rough equivalent of Frazier's right. So it's Frazier's left hook against Marciano's Suzy Q.

b) It would seem to me it is easier for Marciano's right to sail over a ducking Frazier than for Frazier's left hook to miss the right-facing Marciano.

c) Frazier is 23 pounds heavier than Marciano! This must count somewhere, somehow, in a face-to-face shoot-out, especially with stamina and work rate so even between the two. Frazier's pressure just may wear Rocky down enough to make a difference.

d) Ali notwithstanding, I'm starting to like Frazier.

 

Walcott showed pinpoint power in both hands, remember he dropped Joe Louis 3 times in 2 fights. Walcott was not an aggressive fighter and if he could box you easily he would settle for that but if he saw an opening he would wait and pinpoint a punch. I like Walcott's chances over Foreman and I think he would have a good chance against Tyson. I have to admit he was not always consistant but later in his career when he had the right nutrition and training he beat some solid guys.

Frazier was a pressure fighter but Walcott could pinpoint a punch harder than Ali and I could see him having Joe walk into a hook and I am not so sure Frazier could take the hook JJ landed on Marciano or Charles. You say the punch was not hard vs Marciano but how would you know. You also said the punch that twisted Joe's Walcott's head around vs Marciano was not hard. I disagree sometimes a fighter takes a great punch and then the next one knocks him out.

Again we have Ali stating on tape that Marciano was a better fighter than Frazier and Ali was in the ring fighting many rds with Marciano and gained respect but that is not good enough for you. I guess you have something stuck in your head in regard to Marciano but that is your opinion and you are intitled to it. I guess there are fighters I dont like or rate lower than most but Marciano is not one of them and most of the experts I spoke to rate him very high

 

Again, Ali and Frazier didn't like each other very much and wouldn't give the other any credit. The Walcott that fought Rocky IMO would not stand a chance against Frazier, Tyson or Foreman. I don't know if any boxing historian we would agree with you on that.

Honestly I love Jersey Joe but I can not even understand why he got a 3rd shot against Charles. He lost to Rex Layne, wining only 2 or 3 rounds then lost to Charles in a very one sided bout. One judge had him losing by 18 points, another 16 and the 3rd 10 points. Then 4 months later he fought Charles again and KO'ed him out.

I also did not say the punch Rocky hit Walcott several rounds before the 13th wasn't hard, I said that it wasn't the one that KO'ed him. If you watch the film, Walcott took it very well.

The punch that KO'ed Charles was the hardest and most perfect punch Walcott ever landed and that comes out from Walcott's own lips.

Again, your not going to change my mind and I am not going to change yours. I know a lot of big time historians and they are split as well.

 

I was a member of the Italian-American Sports Hall of Fame and we would all talked about the Italian fighters and ball players all the time. I have very high regard for Rocky, I know his brother very well. I wish I felt the way you do, about Rocky. I don't have anything stuck in my head when it comes to Rocky. I have made several talks on him and how Great he was. I even was asked by his own family to MC the unveiling of the Marciano Stamp.

It looks like if someone don't agree with you, all you do is to say things like that. This is why most of the top historians don't come on sites like this. They all tell me that I am wasting my time by doing so. I respect your opinions, without saying that something is wrong with you, so you should respect others as well. Again, I don't know any 2 historians that would agree on a top 10 list in any weight class.

I am sure if you lived around my area we would be friends and we could both look at the films and have a great time.

 

This is exagerated. Watch the films, Walcott rocks charles all the way down to his knees like 6 or 7x with one punch each time. Wicked sneaky right hands and powerful left hooks. Walcott always said "This fight was a lot closer than the scores said it was". I believe him. I think this was a very close fight. Charles 9th round knockdown probably gives him the advantage.