Is Shogun the best LHW in mma history ?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by boxingcar, May 12, 2010.


Page 1 of 7
  1. boxingcar

    boxingcar Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,525
    1
    Oct 5, 2005
    Or not ? do you still think it's too early to tell ? , who would you rank above him ?

    According to Shogun himself , Wanderlei Silva is "the" best.

    If you had to rank him in a top 5 or 10...and compare him "prime for prime" with all previous past champs...

    Shogun vs Prime Liddell
    Prime Liddell defeated Sobral , Shogun lost against the same guy (but that was his 5th opponent & he was still very new to the sport)...Liddell defeated Overeem (in japan) and so did Shogun , but failed to win the 2003 Pride fc Grand prix.

    Liddell in japan:
    WON - Vs Overeem ( 08/10/2003 PRIDE - Total Elimination 2003 )
    LOST - Vs Jackson ( 11/09/2003 PRIDE - Final Conflict 2003 )

    Shogun in japan:
    WON - vs Jackson ( 4/23/2005 PRIDE - Total Elimination 2005 )
    WON - vs Rogerio ( 6/26/2005 PRIDE - Critical Countdown 2005 )
    WON - vs Overeem ( 8/28/2005 PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 )
    WON - vs Arona ( 8/28/2005 PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 )

    (defeated both Arona & Overeem on the same night). Though Shogun never actually won the Pride LHW Belt , his 2005 grand prix victory was one of the most dominant in the LHW division's history.

    Liddell's best victories:
    Monson
    Randleman
    Mezger
    Bustamante
    Belfort
    Sobral
    Overeem
    Ortiz
    Couture X 2
    Horn
    Silva (past prime version)


    Shogun's best victories:
    Cyborg
    Gono
    Jackson
    Nogueira
    Overeem X 2
    Arona
    Randleman
    Nakamura
    Coleman (past prime version)
    Liddell (past prime version)
    Machida X 2 (some will disagree , i know...)



    VS Wanderlei
    Pride LHW Champ (2001–2007)
    2003 Pride LHW Grand Prix Champ
    IVC Light Heavyweight Champ

    Silva's best victories:
    Schrijber
    Mezger
    Henderson
    Sakuraba X 3
    Tamura
    Yoshida X 2
    Jackson X 2
    Kondo
    Nakamura
    Arona
    Fujita (past prime version)
    Jardine
    Bisping


    VS Couture
    Most Championship reigns in UFC history (6 times)
    Most Championship fights in UFC history (15 times)
    Oldest fighter to win a title in UFC history (43 years, 255 days)
    First fighter to hold Championship titles in two weight classes

    Couture's best victories:
    Belfort X 2
    Smith
    Horn
    Yanagisawa
    Randleman
    Kohsaka
    Rizzo X 2
    Liddell
    Ortiz
    Sylvia
    Gonzaga
    Vera
    Coleman (past prime version...but so was couture)
     
    boxingcar, May 12, 2010
    boxingcar, May 12, 2010
    #1
  2. Rattler

    Rattler Middle Aged Man Full Member

    3,925
    18
    Feb 9, 2005
    1. Shogun
    2. Jackson
    3. Liddell
    4. Couture
    5. Silva
    6. Henderson
    7. Machida
     
    Rattler, May 12, 2010
    Rattler, May 12, 2010
    #2
  3. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

    37,070
    29
    Jul 21, 2004
    Well Shogun thinks Wanderlei is ahead of him! I don't though. These Brazilians are humble though. They care about things like friendship over legacy.

    Once Shogun avenges the Griffin loss then he is the best. The Babalu loss should be put down to inexperience just as losses on ATG records like Henry Armstrong are. Shogun had 4 fights, Babalu had 28! No one would expect Babalu to beat Shogun at a later stage.

    It would be great if Shogun cleared out 205 in the UFC then went to SF just to beat Babalu before retiring.

    Shogun is immense but the sport is young and fighters like Rampage, Machida, Evans and co will not lay down.
     
    achillesthegreat, May 12, 2010
    achillesthegreat, May 12, 2010
    #3
  4. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    1. Wandy
    2. Shogun
    3. Jackson
    4. Liddell
    5. Henderson
    6. Machida
     
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    #4
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    Wanderlei is still number 1 in my book. His dominant run was pretty special.
     
    horst, May 12, 2010
    horst, May 12, 2010
    #5
  6. jimmie

    jimmie Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,706
    1
    Jul 19, 2004
    I still think for the moment its Liddell. Rampage has the 2 wins but his resume after Liddell just doesnt stack up and he only has one successful title defense, Wanderlei had a dominant run but a past it Wanderlei lost to a past it Liddell and agian his resume ust doesnt stack up. I think Shogun will eventually take it but you actually have to dominate the divison for a bit. Shogun was considered by most the best 205er in the world through 05-07 but he didnt hold the Pride Championship and Liddell was KTFO very good/great fighters in defending his UFC title over that period. Shogun obviously just this Saturday earned his first belt once he starts defending it he takes the number 1 IMO. This is just like a GSP situation GSP needed title defenses and now Shogun needs the same.
     
    jimmie, May 12, 2010
    jimmie, May 12, 2010
    #6
  7. TerryESB

    TerryESB The Final Boss Full Member

    13,376
    434
    May 4, 2009
    What about prime Ken Shamrock circa 95-96? He was great.



    It is a shame going on fighting way too long and tarning his legacy.
     
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    #7
  8. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    He fought at heavy back then not 205. His career at 205 amounted to sweet FA.
     
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    #8
  9. TerryESB

    TerryESB The Final Boss Full Member

    13,376
    434
    May 4, 2009
    What I am talking about is Ken Shamrock could make 205. He fought when their wasnt weight classes and that is probably his natural class.
     
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    #9
  10. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    Doesnt matter. When he did weigh in at 205 invariably he lost.
     
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    #10
  11. TerryESB

    TerryESB The Final Boss Full Member

    13,376
    434
    May 4, 2009
    Ok, just bare with me. Shamrock is one of the best fighters around 205 lbs of weight of all time.
     
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    #11
  12. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    No. He's not. He's not even close. Shamrock is an MMA pioneer and a UFC hall of famer but even he's body of work at heavyweight is suspect. As for his career at 205 he has less than a handful of wins against non descript opponents.
     
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    #12
  13. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,294
    28
    Nov 15, 2009
    Could've sworn Wanderlei fought at MW
     
    Pachilles, May 12, 2010
    Pachilles, May 12, 2010
    #13
  14. TerryESB

    TerryESB The Final Boss Full Member

    13,376
    434
    May 4, 2009
    Circa 95 Shamrock had the skills to compete against any of 205 lbs on Rattlers list.
     
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    TerryESB, May 12, 2010
    #14
  15. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    The old PRIDE equivalent of Light Heavy was Middleweight. But the weight limit was the same.
     
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    scurlaruntings, May 12, 2010
    #15
Page 1 of 7