Joe Frazier vs. Rocky Marciano

As I said earlier Joe was not a one-handed fighter but was a one-handed puncher....

 

Joe Frazier "came out smoking" at the opening bell and was still smoking 15 rounds later if necessary. He was a swarming, non stop, perpetual motion attacker who fought from a crouch. A sturdy man with a tough jaw, powerhouse left hook (his right wasn’t bad either), and tremendous endurance, Joe came straight at his man, bobbing and weaving as he moved in. By Tracy Callis

If there was one thing Frazier could do in his sleep as a fighter it was shut down a boxer. He never led to the head and always started to the body and worked his way up. His right to the chin wasn't anything special, but it was to the body. Frazier was a debilitating body puncher.

 

e) Frazier's punches get in there a bit faster.

f) Frazier's swift shots could cause severe facial damage in face-to-face combat. A serious cut could very well open on Rocky's face, becoming an important factor in the result.

g) Should this happen, Rocky may very well rise to the plane of his own legend: the undefeated warrior who always, somehow, someway, found the right punch to wrest victory from the jaws of defeat. I have no doubt Marciano can hurt Frazier with one missile.

h) George Foreman had to knock Frazier down 6 times and still couldn't keep him down. I can almost glimpse a Marciano win by stoppage here, but...not quite. I see the perfect Suzy Q staggering Frazier and dropping him, but I think Frazier survives.

i) I don't believe Frazier's proneness to swelling a decisive factor; not if he was stopped on this account only once and only after 14 terrible rounds of getting hit in the face by a 224-pounder...near the end of his career.

j) I'm going with Frazier, quite possibly by decision.

 

You want to talk about how the one-handed thing gets over-stated but you're doing the same thing regarding Marciano's cut. I think the one against Shkor I believe was a bad one or the worst one. I'm not sure, I don't think he was cut or cut bad against Simmons.

Quarry cut worse. Chuvalo had a freak-incident.

 

Honestly, I could show you Marciano using the uppercut in one fight more often than Frazier. And I think you know this. I didn't use it often. He did so sparingly.

Older Frazier developed his right hand more, but if we take this Frazier against Marciano he would probably lose.

 

Make a pick you fence-sitting jackoff. Nobody is saying Frazier is a one-handed fighter. But he was more proficient and dominant with his left hand. I would seriously doubt Frazier could drop Marciano with his right. Hell, even stagger... Marciano could drop Frazier with both hands. That's the difference. And it's noticeable, and significant enough of a merit discussion in this fantasy matchup.

 

Marciano's blow could get Frazier thinking. Moving toward Rocky's power could be dangerous. Going toe to toe with Rocky could be telling of something.

In a war, Frazier's face could puff up and his eye could close. This could be an important factor in the result.

Very reasonable. Who should be favored down the stretch? Is it possible to out-work and out-points Joe Frazier? Would Frazier's fluidity and agility help him out-box Marciano?

In a toe to toe slug-fest with a non-stop punching machine? How many times was Marciano stopped due to cuts? When was he ever in danger of a stoppage due to cuts?

 

As I said he wasn't a "bleeder" but he was cut in more than just the second Charles fight. Frazier also has a history of cutting up opponents with his left hook and being rough in close so it would be no surprise if Marciano were cut in this fight.

I can't think of any fight Marciano was in where he used the uppercut more than Frazier did in the Stander fight. In all of Frazier's in-fighting wars, he used the uppercut to great effect. I think the videos prove this well.

This is not what I'd call using the uppercut sparingly:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I5yXD3W7KI[/ame]

 

Notice when Stander puts pressure on Frazier and backs him up? What does Frazier do? Side step, circle and counter, albeit his conditioning was far from FOTC shape.

He used these tactics wisely against Chuvalo and Quarry in the second fight, but forgot everything when he was pressured by George Foreman in 1973. Every time he got up after being knocked down against George, Frazier tried to go right back at him head on which is suicide against George. Indeed Foreman is more powerful than Quarry and Chuvalo, but it's not as if these two lacked power. Also, Joe neglected his jab against Foreman and relied too much on his left hook. Joe let George get his feet set too much which Foreman deserves credit for as well, not giving Frazier the opportunity to get inside. This allowed George to tee off on Joe from the outside, instead of Fraizer circling, countering and attacking off the counter shots with his jab.

 

Against a boxer yes. But against a powerful puncher? Joe was too brave for his own good sometimes. Trading blows with Rocky would only last so long. Sure Rocky would get busted up. As Frazier would give as much as he gets. But Rocky's power would win out.
Interesting question. who's body attack would take to most effect? Frazier's body assault, or Marciano's hammer blows to Joe's arms?

 

I would say Frazier's body assault. Rocky hurt LaStarza's arms, but LaStarza actually injured his arm in training like he stated before. Also, Rocky wasn't Foreman. Big George pushed his weight around, Rocky couldn't do that, as Frazier was 20 pounds heavier then Rocky and just if not stronger then him.

 

Hurt? he did more than that. he caused permanant physical damagee. he broke blood vessels and chipped bones in his arms!

Also, despite frazier being 20lb "heftier", I don't think he was stronger than rock. Rocky was a freak strength wise. Every opponent he ever fought attested to it. I think rocky was one of the strongest in history.

 

He was strong, BUT to say that he was stronger then any boxer in history is going a little too far. BUT that's your opinion and I respect that. AS far as the LaStarza fight, this is what Roland had to say.

The second fight, ruined me. It was easy at first. Then in maybe the sixth round I blocked a punch with my left arm and my left was gone. I blocked one of his right hands and that was it. I hurt that arm in training and when I blocked that punch I damaged blood vessels in my arm. I stood there and took a beating until the 11th.

 

I never said that. I said he was ONE of the strongest. I think fighters like Liston, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis were stronger.