Joe Frazier vs. Rocky Marciano

Marciano couldn't get at Walcott and he often looked for the KO punch at that point of his career. Against Charles and Moore he was more aware about winning a decision if he couldn't get the stoppage and overwhelmed his opponents with sheer amount of punches thrown. Frazier made his punches count and was more accurate.

I've never seen Frazier throw 100+ punches a round as Marciano did against Charles and Moore. Then again you never saw him miss as many as Marciano did either.

 

I agree but Rocky only threw 100 punches in a couple of rounds during his hold career. Several years ago I went over all the tapes I had on him and counted all the punches he threw. I think he threw 100 against Charles in 1 round. And your right, he did miss a lot but when he did hit the other guy, he knew it.

 

His late round output against Charles was exceptional ...

 

I beg to differ.

History has shown Foreman twice beating Frazier, TKO 2 and TKO 5, nobody is denying that. Foreman would have a much tougher fight with the conditioned Joe Frazier, 1968 -1970, just prior to the FOTC. Foreman himself admits that he wouldn't have been able to beat the same fighter prior to FOTC. Again, not saying that Frazier would beat Foreman, but prime for prime, I'd give Joe a solid chance at taking George into deeper water where stamina becomes a factor in the fight. Frazier was not even near his best against Foreman and apparently partied too much in Jamaica believing skillwise he wouldn't have any problems with George and his size.

 

Not again....

 

Joe Frazier was undefeated & had just beaten an all time great heavyweight in FOTC He was at his absolute peak. On the other hand this was George's initial tittle shot. He was far from HIS prime.

 

It was almost 2 years later that he fought Foreman. Even through Joe beat Ali in their 1st battle, Joe was never the same fighter as he once was. He took a beating during that bout. He had 2 fights in between but you could see that he wasn't the Joe Frazier that he was when he fought Ali, Ellis, Quarry and Foster.

 

The Ali fight took a lot out of him.

 

Well the fighters Marciano fought, Walcott,Charles, Moore,Lastarza were craftier guys than Frazier and were more of sharp shooting pinpoint punchers, Joe would have to come at you and would have to get hit. Frazier had trouble with guys his size and we saw that with 5"9 Scrap iron Johnson that took him the distance and as Frazier and his corner said after the Terry Daniels fight that he always had trouble with men his size.

Marciano may not have fought anyone like Frazier but you can not put Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena or Chuvalo in Marciano's class as a puncher or overall fighter and I think Frazier would be an tough fight but easier in the sense he was there to be hit.

Marciano was a different level of puncher than this bunch. Frazier never fought a puncher like Marciano. Foreman was the best puncher he fought but I have to agree with Gil Clancy there he was a clubbing puncher but he still had power..

Frazier had a glimpse of a prime and that was FOTC, he declined after this fight and you could see it in his body

 

So your saying that if your short, you would have a better chance of beating Joe. I disagree, it was Foreman that gave him the most problems and he was 6'3". It was Foreman strength and power that beat Joe. IMO George would have done the same to Rocky.

I think Chuvalo, Quarry, Oscar and Foster were very good punchers, not in Rocky class but they were better then most. Most of Joe's opponents said he was very hard to hit because of his head movement. Just look at the films of both at the same time and you will see the difference in speed, etc.

 

Layne had a very short prime, but in it, he was pretty dangerous. Watch the way he took huge bombs off satterfield and kept coming, and the way he outlands and outworks Jersey Joe on the ropes, prior to joe winning the world heavyweight title.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJP3UXzLPTg[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKUlBPErrn0[/ame]

Boxing Historian Joe Rein watched layne live in the 50's and had this to say about him


"Throw out the record book on Layne, he was a rugged brawler with a quick, very heavy right. As he got shopworn and discouraged, more and more, he got outworked and beaten down.

But, when he first raged out of Utah -- full of **** and vinegar -- he'd have been a handful for anybody. He could crack with that right."

"Layne looms as the outstanding prospect west of the
Mississippi. He is a hard hitter... Layne has what it takes to be developed
into the next world heavyweight king. He can hit and has an abundance of
courage." - Nat Fleischer wrote in 1951

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Special Thanks to MarcianoFrazier for this article





THE RIGHT LAYNE
By NAT LOUBET

REX LAYNE, heavyweight challenger, had just added another victim to his collection. Bob Satterfield, Chicagoan, had been raining punches off Rex's cocoanut-like noggin all night. The cherubic-faced Mormon from Lewiston, Utah, fondeled the sore spots. Satterifeld had been laid to rest in 2:56 of the eighth canto when Mark Conn, the arbiter, halted the contest with Bob helples from a short right to the jaw.
The bout had been an even-steven affair up to the knockout, although Layne had received all his punches in one locality- the cephalic, or, as the inmates of Stillman's Gym would have it, the kisser.
It was suggested right after the contest that Rex had youth, strength, could take and give it, had showed improvement in his boxing form since his last two Garden appearances against Jersey Joe Walcott and Cesar Brion, respectively, but that he was still green and needed much seasoning in the technique of boxing.
Marvin Jensen, the mink-raising guardian of Layne's ring fortunes, rushed to the defense. "He can box a lot better than he has shown since coming East. Did you see that boy punch? Ole Rex here sure has what it takes. He's full of fight.
"Yeah," someone said, "but how long will he be full of fight if he doesn't learn how to protect himself better?"
Rex interrupted: "A couple more fights like this and I'll be playing marbles," he quipped.
Regardless of his record, an enviable on of 32 fights with only one loss, that to Dave Whitlock whom he defeated in two other outings, it is clear that Rex will have his greatest trouble with fast men who can move around. He won't lose anything by picking up a little more polish in the finer points of boxing.

REX started his boxing career while a sergeant with the 187th Regiment of the 11th Airborne Division, located in the Asiatic theatre. He had enlisted in September, 1946, and was mustered out in March, 1948. In the interim, he won regimental and divisional titles. He came close to carrying home the bacon in the All-Japan tournaments in 1947 and 1948, and but a lad by the name of Howard Williams kept him from achieving that end.
It wasn't until 1949 that Layne made the simon-pure "big time." In that year he won the National A.A.U. championship and a few months later turned professional. His amateur record stands at 26 fights, with only four losses.
After Layne's unimpressive win over Cesar Brion we were visited by the mild-mannered, bashful, boyish Rex and his enthusiastic manager, Jensen.
Jensen recounted the thrill in seeing the best of the breed come into its own; how he had thrilled in raising the best mink and now he was seeing "ole Rex" become a serious contender for heavyweight honors.
It was less than two years ago that THE RING picked Layne as a comer, and he has kept faith by making the grade.
A group had gathered and someone said, "Rex has a whale of a right, but why doesn't he use his left more?"
Jensen jumped into the breach. "Ole Rex here has a dandy of a left hand but he injured it in an early fight and only recently has he started to develop it again."
Rex cut in with: "That's right. My left is beginning to shape up again. I feel it in my gym workouts, and I'll be using it more as I go along."
In his fight with Satterfield, Rex showed improvement with that left, and better boxing form, but he is still way off in ring science and unless he learns how to protect himself, how to avoid powerful wallops such as he got in the Satterfield bout, he'll fail to reach his objective. He's too wide open for punishment.

JENSEN has been the butt of a great deal of criticism from New York scribes for the manner in which he has brought Layne along. His critics claim that his boy was too green for the likes of a Walcott; should never have been in with an awkward spoiler like Brion, and that Satterfield was too strong a puncher for the Utah youngster.
"He's being fed to the lions," has been the cry. But Layne has defeated all three, and by so doing, he is now in a spot to demand recognition as a top challenger. After all, success is what counts, and Layne has come through with victories. His T.N.T. sock and courage have done that for him.
Critics assert that Jensen has not had the experience in the pro league. Yes, he's developed a bevy of amateurs, but the manager of a big-time professional is different, has been the butt of the criticism.
Well, Jensen had to take more chances than other managers or else not get any matches at all for Layne. He was up against it and has won out. The choices that he accepted have all worked out well for Layne, despite the fact that the opposition was exceedingly tough.
Some claim that Layne must receive expert tutoring in boxing technique, tutorin that an old-timer must give. Well, Jensen has one of the best old-time managers in his corner in Joe Woodeman, former manager of Sam Langford, who should be able to advis properly.
We recall a conversation with Jensen prior to Layne's fight with Walcott in which he stated that he wasn't advancing the easy way. "I'm sure Walcott can be beaten by Rex. I've studied the movies of his previous fights and I know what I'm doing. He continued: "There's too much picking of opponents today. If a man wants to be champ he must prove that right by fighting the best."
Results talk, and Layne is up there, but we would like to see him taught more of the finer points. Continuing to take two to land one is likely to end as Layne himself stated: "A couple more fights like this and I'll be playing marbles."
We were shooting the bull a few days prior to the Satterfield affair. Someone made a crack about how Layne looked too young to be of age.
Joe Woodman said: "He'll be 23 in June." He turned to Layne, who was present. "Right?"
Rex said: "I was born June 7, 1928."
"What time?" someone joshed.
Someone else cut in: "Did you ever do anything else but fight for a living?"
"Sure," laughed Rex. "My father owns a farm in Lewiston and I worked on it until I went into the army."
"Say, Rex," interrupted a bystander, "you're not married, are yuh?"
--------- This goes into a lot of talk about Layne's family and whatever else, so I'll just cut to the end-------
We asked Joe Woodman, who has been close to the youngster, what kind of boy he is.
"A grand lad," said Joe. "He lives a clean life, trains hard and is a good family man-and don't forget... a darn good fighter."
The last time we saw Layne was the day after his fight with Satterfield, when he was in THE RING office with Jensen.
"What's you ambition?" Rex was asked.
"What a question to ask a fighter," he countered. I want to be a champ and some day have a restaurant of my own like Jack Dempsey."
Both Dempsey and Gene Tunney had seen Layne in his fight with Satterfield and were high on him. "Polish up his defense and you have a prospective champ," was their chorus.

 

Layne was overrated but he was still a good fighter. I think he would get handled much the same way by Frazier though, he was better against boxers as he was adept at spoiling and outworking his opponents with his awkward style. He had a good chin but against Marciano his defense let him down. It was just a matter of time when Marciano was going to land a big right hand.

 

I think this is highly subjective. You can't say this. I could say if Marciano hit stander or bonavena with his best punch, they would be counted out. Frazier couldn't put either on the floor.


What's with putting down Kid Matthews chin? In 103 fights, he was stopped just 3 times. That's a percentage of 2.9%

In comparison

Joe Frazier was stopped 3 times in 37 fights. A percentage of 8%.


Kid Matthews in his 103 fights, was only down for the 10 count once in his career...against Rocky Marciano. His other two stoppage losses, one was a TKO against jack chase early in his career, the other a back injury retirement against don cocke.. I would say Matthews could take a punch very well, and Marciano deserves a lot of credit for sparking him the way he did.

 

Well, he did sweep the floor with Daniels several times and Stander to his credit had an iron chin if nothing else. Norton and Shavers too blasted him with everything and never had the man down.

I think Frazier's left hook was big enough to possibly KO Layne and Matthews. Walcott would be a more difficult task but I'm not sure if Jersey Joe could last under the fury of FOTC Frazier. I would say that there's less of a chance of Frazier knocking them out with one punch though.