Kostya Tszyu Extremely Overrated

KT is definitely up there, can't even be bothered arguing this, he accomplished what many have yet to achieve or do better. Not saying best ever, but up there.

He's defintiely a fave of mine. lol to those saying if only Judah had stayed down for a few seconds though, the next knockdown would have been absolutely brutal.

 

This is an interesting discussion.

You have to look at Tszyu's career in detail to decide properly.

A few points in favour;
- His FOURTH pro fight he defeated former WBC Champ Laporte. You won't find guys fighting this level of opposition this early, whether or not you think Laporte was on the downhill or otherwise ... it was a dangerous fight.
- Fuentes went on to win a world championship after Tszyu, Brambles was a former world champ, Hernandez a strong contender who had just come off a fight with Chavez, and Tszyu was knocking these guys out at a stage where other fighters were still building up their records with fringe contenders
- Less than two years after turning pro, he defeated Rodriguez to win his first world title. Not the quickest world champion in history, but not far off. Watch this fight and you'll see why people started saying Tszyu had ATG potential.
- He beat an old mayweather, destroyed Mas, and then lost to Phillips in a fight he was winning on the cards at the time of the stoppage.
- Tszyu tuned up after this against former world champ Ruelas, before an entertaining fight with Hurtado who put Tszyu down twice before being stopped later. Hurtado was coming off a loss to Whitaker who he very nearly beat.
- Tszyu then destroyed Gonzales, whose sole loss had been a decision to De La Hoya.
- Unification bought with title holder Mitchell, who people forget was considered one of the best fighters in the game at this time. Prime for prime, tszyu broke him down to capture second world title.
- Outpointed undefeated Urkal in a tough bout, then faced undefeated Judah in a fight where he was picked as the underdog, with many people saying they felt Tszyu had slowed down and was nearing the end of his prime (that was 2001 ... and people were saying Tszyu was already getting old). A second round knockout and he had unified the 140 division for the first time in decades (whatever it was)
- Put on a boxing clinic versus Tackie, beat a tough Leija in six (leija had just beat Mickey Ward) and during this fight torn a muscle in his shoulder
- Surgery on his shoulder, then tore his achilles and most people said his career was over. Surgery on his achilles and a rematch with Mitchell.
- Again, people remember Mitchell as a bum because of his late career performances, but he was considered the BEST 140 pound fighter in the world at this time. He was favoured to win the rematch, hadn't lost since the first Tszyu fight and hadn't been put on the canvas in ELEVEN years. Tszyu destroyed him in three rounds.
- In his last fight, he lost to Hatton.
- His destruction of fighters in their prime Gonzales, Mitchell, Judah in a manner unmatched by common opponents de la hoya and mayweather. Even Gatti's management released a letter at one point saying Gatti would quote 'Never fight Tszyu in this lifetime'. Comparatively they were willing to put their cashcow fighter in with Mayweather.
- You'll struggle to find someone else at 140 saying they've been hit harder. Post-fight interviews from opponents kept repeating the same thing 'I've never been hit so hard by anyone.' Gonzales said Tszyu hit harder than DLH.
- Associated with laser right hand, but I heard a commentator, might have been foreman, say Tszyu's hooking off the jab was one of the best punches you could hope to study, and often set up the right.
- Take into account what some people say is one of the best amateur career's in history, with Teddy Atlas and Chris Byrd saying an amateur Tszyu was the best boxer (not slugger, but skilled boxer) they'd ever seen, De La Hoya and Mosely saying a younger Tszyu was the boxer they enjoyed watching and you've got a guy who has peer admiration and respect. Mayweather also said he respected Tszyu as a fighter.
- Sportsmanship: For this alone, Tszyu gets an extra thumbs up from me. I thought he showed something in this fight that is one of the rarest things in boxing; sportsmanship and grace in defeat. Never complained about the illegal tactics but applauded Hatton and quietly retired without a fuss. His own trainer said 'I was proud of him throughout all the victories, but even prouder of him in defeat today.'

Against;
- Never got the career defining fight he needed. People scan his resume looking for name recognition; he needed a de la hoya or mosely on there to cement his legacy. Tszyu blew his chance and has no one to blame but himself, De La Hoya was talked to before the Phillips fight and the Hatton fight. Losses derailed this fight.
- Didn't rematch Phillips. Despite people thinking Tszyu ducked him, you only have to look at interviews at the time and Tszyu mentions rematching Phillips often. Unfortunately Phillips lost the title after the Tszyu victory and Tszyu was offered another title shot against Hurtado/Gonzales.
- Lost to Hatton in a fight where he was a favourite with the promise of a superfight if victorious. This hurts Tszyu in that he picked a fight for money and the three rounds in three years caught up with him halfway through the fight. I won't go into the location, ref, low-blows and dodgy hug hit tactics ... but moreso that Tszyu seems to suffer some harsh judgement in losing his final fight as a professional that alot of other boxers don't get.
- Starting from a base as one of the most skilled amateurs in history ... he tailed off into a more singular head hunting power hitter. Lost a lot of the subtle head-movement, body punching and variety of his early years to focus on KOs.
- Weakness Perception; the common perception is that he lost because of a problem with swarming fighters but I don't believe that. The Phillips fight he was being sued by his promoter at the time and his trainer urged him to delay the fight, but Tszyu refused. Was winning on the cards and was told by his corner to box the last few rounds, but didn't. Kept trying to blow Phillips out with big rights and walked into more than he landed. It's a great, close war that he could have easily won. Hatton fight, I thought he showed during the middle rounds he had figured out Hatton but the right hand had gone missing and he gassed badly. As a final fight, criticised for finishing on his stool rather than applauded for knowing when to stop.
- Egotistical in the ring. IMO He is a better fighter than Phillips and Hatton, but defeated himself with arrogance, stupidity and inactivity. Two fights in his career he failed to make weight on the first attempt; Phillips and Hatton. Two fights his corner asked the same question during the actual fight 'Why are you fighting this way Tszyu?' No one to blame but himself.

Tszyu had certainly had peaks and troughs. But it's Tszyu at his best that you have to judge, not his worst. End of the day if you can't watch the Rodriguez and Gonzales fights and see a very special fighter, you're not looking hard enough.

Great Fighter : Yes.
Achieved His Potential : No.

 

This was definitely true of Kostya's boxing. He was very methodical.

Extra thumbs up from me too. I have a lot of respect for him for this.

*ahem* rattail, not ponytail. D

 

Is Pryor overrated?

They brought an aging and past it Cervantes to his hometown so he that he can knock him out which he did.
His signature win is Arguello who was never proven as a JWW and had a lot of trouble with the diminutive Mancini at LW.
He was arguably beaten by Hinton.
etc.

Or Ricardo Lopez for example?

 

i think its safe to say the haters have been soundly flogged in this thread..

 

Best post in this thread:good

 

You live in a ****ing dream world. What if, what if. Listen to yourself. Zab won the first round. Wow. How many times in the history of boxing has someone won the first round only to lose the fight the very next round? Hundreds? Thousands? He lost the fight. I like Zab's style but he was destroyed.

You're still sour about this? **** me. atsch

 

No doubt. Good stuff, Gatorage.

Re Pryor, of all the drawbacks listed above, the biggest question mark of his career isn't even mentioned. What was in the ****ing black bottle?

imho, a young KT would stomp the dog**** out of Pryor. Pryor went down against a LOT of his opponents. He always got back up, but that wouldn't be the case against KT. Without that bottle, he's just a victim.

 

I like Zab, he's my facebook buddy lol and actually pretty good to his fans. Had he been allowed to continue in that fight, I can only see him getting stopped very soon after the knockdown, and brutally.

 

Yeah I agree, definitely overrated. I put this down to the Judah dance and the Vernon Forrest amateur victory. He was a better amateur than a pro, as people have said he didn't beat any prime big name fighters or try to avenge his defeats to average fighters that beat him. He wasn't a smart man which is a shame as he could of been alot better as a pro. He overtrained all the time and didn't get proper nutrition for his fights, he thought of this as being mentally strong but really it was just stubborn and foolish. People obviously haven't seen all of his pro fights, he looked very sluggish against weak opposition at times.

 

:happy:thumbsup

 

he had some pretty signifacant injuries in the last few years. that's why the inactivety.

 

Kostya is not overrated. In fact he is underrated. Had he been American, he would be rated higher today... not so much because of passport alone, but more because he would have gotten more and better fights.

Kostya is a unique fighter and anyone who doubt this is just a boxrec rider without proper knowledge of Kostya. Look at some of his Amateur fights, for example, to see what kind of skill he had even early on.

 

I wish I could find the footage, but i remember Mayweather on Friday night fights back in 03 or 04 saying Tszyu is the only fighter up to 160lbs he could see giving him trouble.

 

I agree Zab was gone, in their fight, but even though Im about as much of a fan of Judah as I am Tsyzu (nothing against either, just not taken by either), I dont believe Tsyzu would have beaten him in 10/10 times.