Rocky only beat one rated contender that weighed over 205, and that was over the hill Joe Louis. Matthews lost to Cockell 3 times, I think that says a lot. I love you man, but Foster was much better then Matthews ever was.
You might be right But I respectfully disagree. Frazier threw has punches faster, was more accurate and hit just as hard. I still believe that with Joe's aggressive style, plus the 20 pound weight advantage, he would come out on top
The 2 rated big guys at that time had already lost to the smaller men, and we are talking about Baker and Valdez who lost to Moore, Johnson and Satterfield. The better men of the day were the experienced craftier guys who happened to be smaller in weight but there was not an once of fat on there body's Wallace was a big man but was KO'd by Charles and Satterfeild who KO'd Baker and subsequently went on to dominate Valdes was stopped by Charles Your argument is circular and you keep bring up weight over quality of opponent
I can not see Foster losing to Cockell at any time. The heavyweight he lost to were Ali, Frazier, Folley and Terrell, all much better then Cockell. IMO Matthews would not beat any of them either.
I agree that quality should be over weight but when you have 2 all-time Greats, like Joe and Rocky, something has to separate them.
As I said before I think this would be a bad match up for Frazier. Marciano, although weighing a bit less, was a harder puncher with a sturdier chin. Frazier would be able to hit Marciano but barring a fight ending cut or something of that nature Marciano who be able to take Frazier's best. When Marciano starts landing his best shots Frazier would have serious problems. Marciano KO 5 Frazier
The thing that troubles me with these mixed decade match-ups is training methods changed through the times and even Frazier did some muscle building exercise. Frazier was 205 for Ali in fight FOTC and 203 for Quarry and Bonavena, Marciano was about 188-189lbs for his last few fights. so you are talking 15 lbs but with Marciano's frame he could gain 20 lbs no problem. Frazier needed more weight because a lot of the training methods were starting to change. Guys like Quarry, Lyle,Mac Foster, Ken Norton, George Foreman were bringing weight training into the heavyweight division. Liston lifted in prison and Cleveland Williams did some body building(not sure if it was weights) In the days of Dempsey and Marciano, there were wall pulleys and of course Marciano's custom made 275lb heavy bag and some underwater punching and rock throwing. Weight training for heavyweight were starting to be added to boxing in the 70's. I used to be an active runner not crazy like Marciano but would run 3-6 miles, 5-6 days a week. I now am older and hit the heavy bag more but have put on 50 lbs of muscle. Most people say I look better now, despite some graying. I have no fat but have more upper body weight, so I think I know a little about muscle gain. My stamina though is not as great as when I was an active runner. Point is when I merge the era's i dont pay too much attention to weight. If we bring a fighter back in time we must abide by the training methods avaiable and if we bring a fighter forward in time in these fantasy match-ups we would have to deduct and also consider the 12-15 rd factor. In regard to Marciano and Frazier there is not a difference in the rd factor. If Frazier fought in the 50's his weight would more than likely been lighter and had Marciano fought in the 70's he would have been more muscled. Even if it was not something injected into his training, growing up in the late 60's and 70's weights and universal gyms were already being used in high schools and weights was a very big part of fitness in America, this was not so in the 50's
Foster was also stopped by small heavyweight Doug Jones and Matthews had started to decline at this point in time. Matthews was on a like 50 bout win streak when he fought Marciano in an elimination. Again Matthews was ruined by Rocky.
Henry--just a few questions? 1. Who were the top five fighters Foster defeated? (Not fought. Defeated.) 2. Which fighter that Foster DEFEATED would you favor to defeat Matthews? 3. Who was the best heavyweight that Foster DEFEATED? 4. Matthews defeated Rex Layne. Which heavyweight that Foster DEFEATED would you favor over Layne? 5. An aging Matthews lost two close decisions to Don Cockell and retired with a back injury in a third fight. Cockell was rated in both the lightheavy and heavyweight divisions, was at one point the European lightheavyweight champion and the British Empire heavyweight champion. What heavyweight did Foster DEFEAT that you consider better than Cockell?
Another way to look at this is who did Foster DEFEAT that Matthews couldn't have defeated? The 39 year old Tiger? A slipping Hank? Finnigan? Besmanoff? Mike Quarry? Rondon? I would favor Matthews over every fighter Foster defeated. I want to be clear here. I am not trying to build Matthews up to the moon. His resume was limited. But Foster is a real question mark for me. The best men he fought whether big (Ali, Frazier, Terrell, Folley) or not so big (Mina, Jones) defeated him. The one possible exception, Tiger, was 39 and fighting above his best weight. His resume is filled with rather ordinary fighters in a historical sense.
I know what your saying, as Foster really didn't box that many heavyweights but can you honestly tell me that Matthews could have beaten Foster when they were both at their best? I could ask you the say thing, what fighters that Matthews beat would you favor over Foster. The time Matthews beat Layne, Rex was on his way down hill. As was stated before, Rocky took care of that. I honestly don't know any boxing historian or expert that would say that Matthews was better then Foster, even if they fought as Heavyweights.