A good question about Tyson/Douglas

He trained BUT he just went through the motions, thinking Douglas would be an easy fight. I mean Douglass was nothing special but he did give Tucker a tough fight in the 80s. Tyson wasn't in bad shape but he wasn't good either and Douglass beat the hell out of him all night.

 

He trained, but he also indulged himself and that cut his focus down. There's alot of stories that his sparring partners were getting the better of him before the fight. He just wanted to do the workout and go out to **** the Japanese girls, there was no discipline or intensity in that training camp. So yeah he still made a reasonable weight, but you could tell his body also looked a little soft.

Also, the team he had around him was garbage. Don King just hired a bunch of yes men and Tyson knew more about boxing than they did. I mean come on, who the **** forgets to bring a cold press?

 

Good post :thumbsup

 

You are a fanatic. The bottom line is that Mike was in very good shape physically, mentally probably not so much. He underestimated Douglas and for whatever reason, be it once a millenia astrological alignment, sacrificing virgins to the dark lord satan, hypnosis or all of he above and more, Douglas brought his A game. Mike couldn't find a way to beat him, he took his punishment well so i won't say he didn't dig deep and if anything that highlights his limitations against that version of Douglas. Mike was exceptional in certain ways, but he had his flaws as all fighters do and Douglas found them that night.

This coming from a huge Tyson fan.

 

I don't believe he didn't train for the fight. I do believe he didn't take the opponent seriously and wasn't focused on the fight during the time he was in Japan before the fight.

 

[FONT=&quot]Just from what I read and heard over the years through articles...which include articles written at the time, interviews from people who were around and knew what was going on, etc.:[/FONT]

First I would like to say that the blame is on Mike Tyson for making poor choices with his career.

Name a character in his story that helped bring him down: Don King, Robin Givens...well, they were people that were allowed in by Tyson's choice.

Now on to the Douglas fight:

[FONT=&quot]Tyson wasn't in peak shape. Not just physically, but more so mentally.
He lacked "[/FONT]discipline"

[FONT=&quot]Acutally, if anyone saw that Bruno vs. Tyson build-up, Bruno seemed to wonder if Tyson would even make it to the fight given his wild life-style. And Tyson didn't exactly look so hot in that fight either. Not like he was from Berbick to Spinks. Although even during that period, even with Rooney, he wasn't always training 100% properly. His life was a mess and he wasn't happy even then during certain periods. From what I read, two training camps that could be mentioned as not quite smooth camps...would be for the Tucker fight and Spinks fight.


When you are 5'11, 215+ pounds with a short reach, you need to be on top of your game both mentally and physically to fight bigger men over 6'0, 220...let alone fighters your size. Buster Douglas was 6'3+, 230, long reach, and unlike Tyson, was motivated to fight and win.

It was interesting how Oliver McCall warned Tyson about Douglas and Tyson dismissed McCall's warning. I don't think Tyson would be allowed to do that had someone like Rooney been around him. Someone honest around him to tell him point blank that he was messing things up. Tell him that he was an idiot and was making poor choices. Something Tyson did a lot of after he left his original team.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tyson was running his own show at that time. And during that time, his camps were not running smooth compared with how he looked with Rooney. And his life-style outside of the ring was said to be to out of control.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For his Weight:
Tyson was said to be very high in weight not long before the fight. Obese level. So instead of weight gradually coming off in a normal pace in say an 8 week training camp, in which training, honing your skills. and preparing specifically for the opponent would be first on the agenda....obesity level would make your concern be about that first. And when you are so heavy, dieting down in a short period of time can make you lethargic. And if your outside life is still "busy" and you are not focusing, it makes it even worse.

So Tyson may have weighed 220 for Douglas but that 220 was not a healthy weight of 220. Think of any fighter in lower weight classes that has to crash diet to make weight. Sure, they make it but how do they look during the fight?
Some don't look so healthy. And the longer the fight goes, what you did during that camp, what you did in the past year...all shows up.

So it isn't even about how you train for 8 weeks but how you have been living your life for the past year or so. Mentally, Physically...where are you at?[/FONT]

Skill level:
Specific training was required for Tyson's success. The Man for that job to continue to bring it out of Tyson was Rooney. Rooney based his training off of D'Amato's training methods. Methods that helped build-up speed, accuracy, timing, combos, etc.

Here is a good article on some things D'Amato did for training when he trained Buster Mathis:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079455/3/index.htm

I'm not saying Rooney was the perfect training and Tyson couldn't have used some help add to his arsenal...since Tyson's straight-right might have looked best in his second fight with Ruddock after working on it with Richie Giachetti (according to Richie). Funny thing is, I read D'Amato didn't like Richie (according to Cayton). Wonder what was going through Tyson's mind about that.


But anyway...

Skills were being trained and instructions on how to fight a specific opponent (from my understanding) was Rooney's job. Even during the fight, you can hear Rooney not only instructed Tyson in-between rounds, but shouting out numbers/commands during the fight. Something Tyson said he could hear.

Sparring: remember how important sparring was and how Rooney ran sparring. Not so sure Tyson was still doing that same sparring when he left.

Road-work: Tyson was said to have not done it to level he was doing it with Rooney after he left him going into the Douglas fight.
Miss your daily runs and exercise...on top of hard sparring...and you are more likely to fade in a fight...fast.

Here is a quick tid-bit to look at:

So anyway...just to finish this off without continuing further into detail...Tyson didn't give himself much of a shot going into the Douglas fight because he failed to prepare properly for Douglas...while Douglas prepared for the fight.

 

That means he didn't train for the fight. Well, to be more specific; train properly...train like he used to train when at his best.

Training is both Mental and Physical. It is preparing for the opponent while honing your skills throughout the year preparing for bouts...while the 8 weeks or so camp for that specific opponent is the heightened state of training to concentrate on the goal at hand...Winning.

 

Douglas had a similar problem when he went into the fight with Holyfield.

That desire was gone. Just one fight. That's all it took.


Interesting quote by Douglas:

"It'll hurt not being the Champion. But it was attaining a goal, becoming the Champion, and not attaining another - defending the title."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...m4OAAAAIBAJ&sjid=G4EDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4177,4597489


Tyson himself talked about "retiring" after the Spinks fight.

I think Tyson's goal might have been simply to become the youngest HW Champion and go on to unify it. But after that...not sure.

Rooney said he tried to talk to Tyson to focus on 50-0.

 

Tyson had absolutely no head movement, he didn't bob or weave. He was a stationary target-and Buster did the best Larry Holmes impersonation I have ever seen. His jab was the best in the business for one night only. It was a once in a lifetime occurrence. Tyson fought his worst fight and Buster fought his best fight on the same night.

 

he had lost his trainer, lost his desire to win and maybe his training was not as good as it used to be

 

Being at your best weight doesn't tell the whole story. Tyson didn't have any stamina that night. His skills had eroded quite a bit by then as well. The downhill slide was fast after the Spinks fight took place. Watch him against Frank Bruno (a year after Spinks) and you'll see that he was already getting away from the things that he was taught. He starts telegraphing single shots rather then putting punches together. He stopped using his jab and being elusive. He barrels into his opponents with no head movement, and loads up big punches. By the time he got to Douglas he had a bad false sense of security and he didn't take him seriously at all.