Jeffries punches harder? lyle slugged on even terms with a Prime George Foreman. Jeffries had issues outslugging men 35lb smaller. I highly doubt jeffries is tougher than a man who spent all those years in prison. Lyle was a warrior. did over 1,000 pushups a DAY in prison to build up his massive strength. I like Jeffries in this one by late stoppage, because i think he will outlast lyle, but lyle is a type of opponent jeffries never beat during his career. A fighter just as big as he, who could hit hard, and was as strong as an ox.
i have to disagree: i think lyle's reputation is inflated by the foreman fight. That foreman was sloppier than usual, uncontrolled and uncoordinated but still managed to get the job done. Lyle was also stopped by a well past it Ali in a fight where he was outboxing ali, not out punching him and his loss to Cooney, while past his own prime does not add much to his durability. I think Lyle's size would have caused problems but he was neither a master boxer or devasting puncher: he was quite good at a lot of things but i still feel jeffries held the strength advantage and his punching power was tremendous. It may not be as one-sided as I described but i don't see lyle bringing anything to the table that jeffries couldn't handle. and leave joe choynski out of this:twisted:
My money would be on James Jeffries. I don't think Lyle can seriously hurt Jeffries, but Jeffries could hurt and stop Lyle. Jeffries by late stoppage would be my prediction.
Why not? He seriousely hurt George Foreman, who had equal if not better a chin than Jeff. Just because Jeffries took big punches off of men 40-50lb lighter than him, does not mean he can take big bombs from a man his own size.
I like Jeffries to win this late ,but what evidence have we to conclude that Jeffries punching power was tremendous? Lyle was not a master boxer true,neither was Jeffries,and Lyle may have been his equal in power.
true, we don't have a lot of evidence and considering how few report fights he actually had, it's tough to gauge. but reports from the time state that he was one of the most powerful men ever in the sport and his knockouts of the normally durable corbett and fitz, along with an ancient peter jackson, give him the benefit of the doubt for me.
That's kos over,a 36 year old man whom he outweighed by 39lbs, who had not fought in 2 years,again over him, when he was 39 years old and outweighed by 47lbs. A ko over a 33 year old ex retired fighter who had not fought in 2 years and not won in 6 years,and was outweighed by 30lbs yet still went 23 rds. A ko over another retired , 37 year old man, who had not fought in 2 years, was an alcoholic and consumptive. These wins do not convince me he was a terrific puncher, rather the reverse.A heavy puncher ,especially against men he outweighed by up to 47lbs, he wore his man down, over time. Reports of the time did say Jeffries was very powerful, how many muscular 220pounders over 6 feet ,were there fighting then? His best wins are over an inactive aging super middle and an inactive aging comrbacking man who spotted him 30lbs, yet went 23rds. Today Jeffries would be a small heavyweight.
I agree with much of this post.. In addition to only scoring late round stoppages or KO's over much smaller opponents who were past it, Jeffries also had his nose broken on 3 occasions by smaller men.. He also fought perhaps only one or two black men in his career, and none who were prime.. Lyle was nearly 6'3", weighing something like 220 lbs, and rose off the canvas to stop Earnie Shavers, along with beating other decent heavyweights of a great era... A long distance fight would favor Jeffries, but I'm not fully convinced that he wins this one..
hmmm:think you and magoo have given me a lot to think about. perhaps focusing on his strengths, durability and physical power, and his weaknesses, could not rise about limitations of his day, struggles with smaller fighters and lack of one punch ko power, would be better. balancing that with the size difference, obvious boxing ability of lyle and his own power make this a different landscape than i thought i'm starting to think that if jeffries is going to win, he'll grind lyle down as he did with so many others. wish i had seen more footage of jeffries (wish there WAS more footage) to make a more informed choice
That is really part of the problem.. While we shouldn't just write off Jeffries as being a primitive opponent who never faced modern athletes that matched his physical attributes, we also can't crown him with the halo of immortality either.. Fight film is very limited on Jim Jeffries, therefore all we can really do is analyze the statistics and descriptions of his opponents and the results of those fights... My thinking is that Jeffries was a very strong and durable fighter, GIVEN THE STANDARDS OF HIS DAY.... I don't know what he'd do if his list of opponents looked like this : - Ron Lyle - Earnie Shavers - Jimmy Young - Jerry Quarry - George Foreman - Joe Frazier - Muhammad Ali - Jimmy Ellis - Mac Foster - Ken Norton Now, I don't think that if he fought in the 70's that he would have necessarily faced ALL of those opponents one after the other in order, and even the ones that he MIGHT face, he'd probably beat some of them... But, you can bet that if he wanted to call himself the very best, his schedule would definitely have some of those names on it, and frankly I can't see him walking away with too good of a record..
good points but what if you took that jeffries and transplanted him in the 1970s, would he look the same? now traditionally i hate when people add 20 or 30 magic pounds to old timers and give them modern techniques and skills, assuming they would assimilate to the new era seamlessly. BUT for a fight like jeffries who relied on his physicality, he would likely be significantly bigger in the modern era and fight to the same style. he was big for his day and there's a good chance that he would remain big for the day in the 1970s...otherwise he'd had to alter his entire fighting style
Foreman was very herky jerky in that fight, not his usual feet planted cutting the ring of bad intentions monster.
Well, I think that the abovenamed fighters pretty much match up quality wise (for their time) with the named 70s bunch, plus you can throw in old Liston (Jackson) and young Holmesvs Ancient Jeffries (Johnson). Most people greatly underestimate what Jeffries did in his own time. He was as dominant as anyone, including 70s Ali.