Monzon was a shade under 6 feet. His height gets often overblown because of the manner in which he fought. He fought tall. A guy like Paul Williams is a freak of nature in terms of his height and proportions, but he doesn't fight tall. Monzon fought upright and utilized his range as well as anyone. He was, however, purely a Middleweight. Arguello was rail thin at Featherweight and carried the extra 4-9 pounds of mass at 130 and 135 perfectly. He was a large fighter at both weights. The same wouldn't be true of Monzon at Light Heavy, especially against the likes of Conteh (a fighter that started his career at Heavyweight) or Foster (do I really need to go into that one?). Not to mention, Monzon had already taken the shoulder shot from his wife and was physically on the decline by the time Conteh even won the title, whereas Foster had already officially announced his first retirement around that period. This was also around the same time that Valdez started to call Monzon out and was seen as his biggest test. Hardly the time to move up.
Those are just excuses, he was willing to fight napoles, who is basically half his size and an old griffith, but he wouldnt do the same and move up so he can take his beating from foster like a man or possibly upset him. This is why Monzon will be ranked alongside guys like Chavez and Jofre instead of Duran. Duran was willing to take risks, monzon wasn't.
Monzon took plenty of risks mate...going into the belly of the beast against Benvenuti, Bogs, and Bouttier early in his career to risk his title in their home countries...a world away from his hometown. Back then especially the jump to lightheavy was just to great unless the money was well worth it. And just isnt comparable to the jumps Arguello or Duran made, even if technically you count the pounds and there isnt much in it. Foster was a monster of a lightheavyweight with solid heavyweight credentials...He and Conteh were far more concerned about cashing out there then taking on a middleweight who didnt have much of a name in their homelands but was considered very capable and a risky venture for anyone by people in the know. I think the Conteh fight was on the cards once...but Im pretty sure I read King steered Monzon and his management towards a fight with Licata in the States. Then the Valdez unification fights started to emerge as a very viable option...Im fairly certain Monzon made a huge chunk of his career earnings with those two fights.
How many career (read natural) mws tested the waters at lhw after WW2? Not many. Robinson tried and failed. Tiger did and was successful but he was a freak strength-wise. Monzon did not. Hagler did not. Hopkins did when he couldn´t make it anymore and he was the biggest of those 5. Those are my Top5 after WW2. Three tried, two were successful - but Hopkins only fought old men and not the best there (Dawson). Two didn´t even try. Incidently I rank those two one and two after WW2.
So you're trying to tell me, that there was no money in fighting those two, im sure he would have made more money fighting them than he would have against random contenders at 160. The fact is he was willing to face napoles, a fighter that he dwarfed in size, but wouldnt fight the big boys at light heavyweight. He could have been a top 10 all time great, but his willingness not to move up will prevent that, hes only going to be on the tier of a chavez-argeullo-jofre, no one is going to rank monzon alongside the durans and grebs. I've also criticized hagler too, its not like im some hagler fanboy and monzon hater. Even Michael Spinks challenged hagler back in the days cuz he knew hagler just wanted to fight guys to move up and fight him. I'm sure Hagler would have made more money fighting qawi or eddie mustafa rather than a mandatory like caveman lee or juan roldan. Maybe he just didnt have the confidence and thought those two would tool him, so he chose to avoid them. Even sugar ray leonard at least fought lalonde. Greb had the courage to fight everyone, hagler and monzon didn't.
I have him on that tier also...Im not so sure beating Conteh would bring him up much but Foster certainly. Not top10 in my eyes but pushing towards it. The Conteh fight wouldnt have been a bigger money fight than the Valdez fights I believe...He was only a new champ and Carlos was getting on by that stage. The Foster fight probably was just a timing thing....by the time Monzon had consolidated his position at middleweight with his second win over Griffith, Bob was pretty much semi retired. He had just lost to Ali, he limped past that South African fellow whose names escapes me and the WBC was giving him all sorts of grief for not fighting Conteh, eventually stripping him. The Napoles fight made more sense really...I dont really hold it against Monzon that he didnt fight Bob, his resume is pretty strong without it.
That is a really good post, sums my feelings up perfectly except in the end I like Monzons dominance and the better more effective fighter. But somedays I would choose Arguello.
More than you may think, there's that had success at MW and LHW - Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall, Bivins (those are pre WW2 to an extent), then there's Jones Jr, Nunn, Toney, Hearns, McCallum, Glen Johnson, Reggie Johnson. Chad Dawson was a MW 5years ago
Please read again. I was talking about career/natural middles. Moore, Charles, Bivins, Jones, Nunn, Toney, Hearns, McCallum, G. Johnson, Dawson are no natural/career mws. Marshall is debatable. R. Johnson okay but who is R. Johnson. He shouldn´t be named alongside the others. Neither should G. Johnson, as much as I like him and Dawson. Hell, even Nunn is debatable to be named alongside those men.
Ofcourse McCallum was a career MW/LMW for 11years, Toney was at MW for 5 years, Jones 5years, Hearns below MW for most of his career. Moore was at MW for 9years Reggie J was an excellent boxer and 2 weight champ, arguably beat Toney Moving up in weight proves your ability against bigger men, something that is harder to do than stay at the same weight. Imagine the advantages Robinson/Armstrong/Mayweather/Charles would have if they stayed at their lowest possible weight like Hagler/Monzon did. Weight jumping should be respected accordingly
Robinson was struggling desperately to make 147 by the end. Mayweather seems to be comfortable at 147, 140 would now be a struggle for him. Charles never fought under 160 outside of his teens.