jack dempsey vs harry greb, 1921

Thank you Bert. The feeling is quite mutual ...

I have always been fascinated by Dempsey. I first read the bio Dempsey by his step-daughter Barbara in 1976 as a ten year old kid and fell in love with his story. AS time went on I began to understand some of the magic of his story ... Dempsey was the American dream ... a poor kid , uneducated kid from the wild west becomes champion fighter, movie star and really never looks back ... he actually morphed into a suit and tie gentleman straight into his old age ... no stories of an older Dempsey as a drunk, a wife beater, a criminal of any sort .. he really managed to graduate as a human being and it's fascinating since we see how so many others did not ...

I just feel like there are so many unknowns on the guy ... I also question all the reports of his talents ... keep in mind in reality there were not a ton of people who actually saw a prime Dempsey actually fight. Most of his legend is the result of wonder press from the PR departments of the golden age ... friends telling friends, ect ...

I wish there was footage of some of these early KO's rom 1918 and 1919 and I efinately wish he fought Greb and Wills. I feel both would have been terrific challanges for him and would have given us a much better barometer of what he really was ... I just can't be sold by his stoppage of an old, inactive Willard although his speed and power were beyond question in that performance ...

 

The rumor mill and legend of the library fascinates me ... we really have no clue whatthey have and what they do not ...

 

bman , you nailed it...ESPN is a monopoly, like hoarding gold...Old timers like myself are deprived of seeing our greats of yesteryear, without the option of paying to see the rare films greedily hoarded by a monopoly ESPN...
Whenever I see the Rumble In The Jungle film scheduled for the 1000th time I shut off the Tv station...I have my reasons why...
I saw the first Ali-Frazier fight MSG 1971...Greatest sports event evening I have seen in person !Great fight by two in PRIME fighters..
The fight in 1974,in my opinion was between Ali, past his peak, and an inept George Foreman, not knowing how to husband his energy,throwing ponderous punches at the rope a dope Ali...
I shudder to think if it was the murderous , coil spring unwinding Joe Louis
in Foremans place... As one old writer remarked in Louis's prime' the human body was not made to withstand a hurt opponent of Joe Louis "...
Truer words were never said...

 

If they had squared off in a competitive match, Jack would have been teeing off on Harry's body straight away. Greb did not draw the color line, and he took on a number of quality contenders who were larger than himself. But Dempsey would have been by far the hardest puncher he'd have ever taken on, and Jack didn't need Benny Leonard advising him to concentrate on Harry's body (as Benny did Tunney). Dempsey broke big George Godfrey's ribs in sparring, just about folded Carpentier in half with his body attack, and dropped the rock hard Brennan for the count with body shots.

Carpentier's record over the ten years preceding his challenge of Dempsey was impressive. He'd only been defeated by IBHOFers Dixie Kid, Frank Klaus, Billy Papke and Joe Jeannette in all that time. Nobody had put him down for the count since he was a novice flyweight in his early teens. (He shortly returned the favor to that one lucky opponent.) The way Jack crushed Carp at Boyle's 30 Acres has since diminished the Frenchman, in a way that Greb might likely also be diminished, so perhaps it's better for the legend of Greb that Dempsey-Greb never took place for real. Harry didn't have the power to hurt him, would not have weighed more than 170 pounds, and Jack was a bad champion to concede 20 pounds in weight to. Beyond that, Dempsey would not have taken Harry lightly after their experiences in sparring, as Jack so foolishly took Brennan in their rematch after the ease with which Dempsey dispatched KO Bill in early 1918.

Take a look at Dempsey-Carpentier again. Georges had blinding speed in his right hand, and lethal power for a man his size. Harry had the speed, but his power wasn't comparable. What kind of punch resistance would Greb's body have against those sledge hammer blows Jack would have been blasting away with?

 

Duodenem, I agree...
There is no one in boxing history that respects Harry Greb, than I..
As I have posted before Greb was quoted as saying " in a real fight, after a couple of rounds, Jack, would kill me ", unquote...Even if this quote was never uttered, in believe no man in history would spot young Dempsey 20 pounds and survive...He was an animal, rough, tough, and the greatest infighter in history...Too much for even Harry, I believe to overcome....

 

How can you compare Carpentier and Greb ? Two completely different styles .. in addition, Carpentier was no where in Greb's league as a fighter ...

Here are the facts :

They sparred multiple times and Greb gave as good as he got, often making Dempsey look bad.

Greb had an exceptional record against heavyweights. Dempsey gave title shots to three men Greb ultimately dominated (Miske, Brennan and Gibbons) but side stepped Greb.

Greb fought light heavyweight bouts at 175. Dempsey at 188. We are talking about a 13 pound difference. He had no trouble fighting the 175 pound Carpentier or Gibbons though ...

Like in the case of Wills, Dempsey and his management would not risk a fight with Greb. To discount him as too small is no different as discounting Wills as too slow ... they are excuses, plain and simple.

 

Dempsey would crush Greb. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to foresee how angles, speed, and pace won't overcome an elusive fast powerful fairly solid-chinned defense. Greb just doesn't have the power to keep Dempsey from murdering his body. Greb got worn in the Tunney fights, Dempsey would brutalize him in the middle rounds if Greb was still around or tough enough to take the beating.

Dempsey would crush Joe Calzaghe too.