Camacho vs Leonard - Does Hector Deserve Any...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Gesta

    Gesta Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    9
    Not even a little?

    Hector was not at his prime age or weight either? and is not noted as a puncher.
     
  2. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,635
    Likes Received:
    335
    he discounts hector's natural size disadvantage becuz he doesnt want it to look like an even fight. Hector> SRL becuz he knocked out the bigger man.

    Dont call me a hater people, it's the truth
     
  3. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    34,796
    Likes Received:
    66
    No credit at all. He beat a guy who did not have a win since the previous decade, and this was 1997-no win for 8 years. Ray shouldn't have come back. All his layoffs and really his style of relying on speed are what made him so ineffective when he got older. Once his speed left he couldn't fight well, and the layoffs made him even worse. Hearns beat Ray up and I think that was the beginning of Ray diminishing. The Norris beating was really bad, but Ray at that time took the punches. Norris put such a beating on Ray for 12 rounds. Terrible beating. Norris won every round and then Ray came back 6 years later without another fight. Why would Camacho get much credit. For what? Then when Hector fights guys his age he gets wiped out with Chavez and Delahoya and outclassed. Hector was overrated.
     
  4. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    34,796
    Likes Received:
    66
    exactly. those fights were in the 1990s. Ray would have been knocked out by anyone that night. His legs were gone and he didn't move or anything, and his handspeed was gone also. Norris took a lot out of Ray. I am not sure why anyone would fight after being beaten up in the fashion Norris beat up Ray.
     
  5. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    6,867
    Likes Received:
    8,114
    :lol:
    Come on Rooster you were so "quite pleased with the outcome" that your wrist and eye sight have never been the same since.
     
  6. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    42,502
    Likes Received:
    405
    zero.
     
  7. Gesta

    Gesta Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    9
    Good point,
     
  8. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,635
    Likes Received:
    335
    i can accept the fact that Norris took a lot out of Ray that night; Ray had never faced a man with the speed of Norris so it was very one sided. However, Camacho also has taken his share of beatings and tough fights. much more so than Ray leonard and with nearly double the fights. Make no mistake that Hector was washed up as a fighter and at a real size disadvantage which is obvious from the film

    When you see people like Addie denying Hector's brilliance, it is nothing more than resenting the fact that his strategy wa so well executed even as Norris employed the correct strategy. In fact his strategy worked so well it wouldnt surprise me that Addie would accuse Hector of somehow cheating

    Is it unfair that Ray's career ended the way it did at 36-3-1? Yes, but let's give Hector the credit he deserves; he didnt win it by laying back and trading pitty pat with him, he took the fight to him in a way people thought was inconceivable, forcing Ray back and reducing him to one punch combinations. People shouldnt complain about Hector's grabbing and hitting tactics, that's just the way Hector fights. Get over it!!

    Hector showed up overrated, protected Ray who made his name off of picking fights with senior citizens. Some people just can't accept that
     
  9. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,737
    Likes Received:
    3,428
    Amen.

    And Leonard is a guy who did everything based on superior reflexes. When he didn't have them, like finally being slower than opponent as with Norris, he got licked. No plan B.

    The big mistake I thought was Leonard taking on a southpaw. It had been a long time since Bonds & Leonard really did not look terrific in that one. Camacho was a combination puncher from the word go & had fast hands and top shelf whiskers. And although he wasn't a big hitter, he sure could string together some nice series of punches in a 5 second burst.

    Camacho hurting Leonard early was a big big factor as well. What an opponent cannot do is to fall behind Ray early and try to play catchup. He's too smart and knows how to win rounds and play the crowd. But once he got hurt early, Leonard became a different guy in there and he really was no risk taker anyway.

    All in all, a good performance by Hector and he dominated the guy. What else can he be expected to do in a bout where he was a major underdog?
     
  10. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    42,502
    Likes Received:
    405
    Camacho is seemingly getting more credit for beating a Ray Leonard who hadn't fought for 6 years than Benitez gets for beating Duran.

    Only on ESB.
     
  11. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    42,502
    Likes Received:
    405
    Rooster, ****in' clown shoes.

    Fact: Ray beat Thomas Hearns
    Rooster's bull****: Hearns was weight drained...premature stoppage. No credit.

    Fact: Ray beat Benitez
    Rooster's bull****: Everyone did, so what? No credit.

    Fact: Ray beat Duran
    Rooster's bull****: Duran was out of shape, Leonard forced him to sign the contract. No credit.

    Fact: Ray beat Hagler
    Rooster's bull****: Hagler was shot. Hagler got robbed. No credit.

    Fact: Leonard comes back after a three year lay off gets beat on points by Norris
    Rooster's bull****: Leonard was prime time. Norris the ATG.

    Fact: Leonard comes back after 6 six years away from the sport and is stopped by Camacho
    Rooster's bull****: Camacho beat a prime time Leonard. Camacho was the master.

    Ray must have ****ed your sister sideways or some **** because you have a huge chip on your shoulder.
     
  12. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    20,862
    Likes Received:
    139
    He gets credit for fighting an uncharacteristic Camacho typical fight. I think if Camacho approached the fight in his usual cautious way Leonard might have had a chance, but as far as any legacy defining fight no, only it showed Camacho knew what needed to be done against a faded fighter trying to comeback.
     
  13. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,635
    Likes Received:
    335
    Had Hector fought in his usual laid back manner as he did with Duran I think Ray would have definitely won becuz he could box at his usual pace as he did in the Benitez and Hagler fights and get away with what he wanted and people would say he outboxed hector


    I think Hector really threw him off his game coming out the way he did not giving him time to think and putting Ray back on his heels from the start, backing him up and hurting him early as Norris did. Ray just cannot adjust to this much adversity. By taking this approach and ambushing Leonard, Hector showed that he was the smarter tactician. I know a lot of Leonard fans out there dont think it's fair that hector attacked him in this way (Addie) but I really enjoy seeing a great small man beating a good big man
     
  14. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,635
    Likes Received:
    335
    You call that beating? My sister could have beat hagler that night
     
  15. duranimal

    duranimal Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    8,611
    Likes Received:
    38
    He deserves 100% credit in the way he went about smashing the **** out of that con-man who'se ego would'nt let him share even 1% of limelight with the new generation of rising stars who's day it really belonged too.

    He hated the fact that Duran was still active & drawing crowds & wanted a 4th fight with him & arrogant enough to think that the boxing public would be gullible enough to forget his last running dog thief in the night performence at the Mirage.

    I remember well the popular concensus in the press back then & it was absolutly scathing of Leonard & his ego driven quest for attention at the expence of more worthy younger fighters & Camacho was viewed as the disinfectant that finally rid the boxing world of virilant contagion that was Leonard + Hector really wanted to beat the **** out of Leonard for all the slimy nastie none too subtle digs & barbs he would subject Hectors fights too when he was color man on HBO, Camacho never forgot & as he said himself that it was one of the most satisfying moments of his life beating the crap out of Leonard.

    Well done Hector!! As boxing was able to move forward once that boxing vampire Leonard had been wiped out & the world could smile again:D