Sock of Ages Louis/Dempsey

I dissent.

Here's my disclaimer: Louis would take him anytime from 1920/21 on.

But Toledo Dempsey was something else (Sorry Teeto... I also distinguish Montreal Duran as something else). McGrain has an article from about 2 years ago that dissects this fight and confirms the force that was Dempsey when he fought Willard. I'd argue that that version has a real chance against Louis. Here's why.

First, and I'm surprised that no one has remembered Louis's admission that he disliked pressure. He was speaking of Marciano, a physically stronger fighter than Dempsey, but the principle is the same. Dempsey was a relentless brawler who was all about pressure, who had a disturbing mantra that he said to himself when young ("kill him, kill him"). And Dempsey had speed.

Second, Louis can be counted on to beat anyone the second time, but not always the first. Godoy caused real problems the first time out and that style is arguably closest to Dempsey's. Louis found it tough to measure him. The low crouching, constantly weaving and swinging Dempsey would not be something Joe was used to dealing with. Joe was a traditional, orthodox boxer-puncher. Dempses had a bit of Pryor in him in 1919. He was not so easy to jab at that point -later he got easy to jab at. Why? Because his style had a very brief shelf life. He couldn't possibly keep that up for more than a few years. And he actually kept it up even less time because he softened after becoming champ.

It seems to me that when analysts see Dempsey in a H2H they almost always factor in the version that fought Tunney. 1925 Dempsey was about as close to 1919 Dempsey as we are to the Bee Gees at the top of the charts.

You gotta figure in the neutral corner rule too. If Joe goes down early here (and he well might), Dempsey ain't gonna let him off the hook. Joe would get bludgeoned.

I wouldn't be so bold as to choose Dempsey outright, but it would not surprise me in the least if he beat Louis the first time ...even by stoppage.

 

I liked that article. This:

"....daring his opponent to rise, then the cool descends and he ambles to his right, he looks like a man deciding if he wants to buy this birdbath or the more expensive one he saw earlier."

-was very well done. And the last line is a beauty.

 

I agree with this predicted outcome of this tantalizing fantasy fight of guaranteed excitement.

My sentiments too, I was hoping someone would mention both of those points.
I actually believe that Dempsey has noticeably quicker hand speed and note that peak Louis of Schmeling II was 198lbs, just 11lbs heavier than peak 187lb Dempsey of the Willard bout, so it's laughable some individuals place importance on the small difference.

 

Matt is a great writer. btw, did you happen to take a glance of peter courtney on film? The worst fighter of all time on film by far. LOL.

 

Dempsey actually did have a pretty good jab against Brennan and Gibbons.

 

A few points to make.
Dempsey though lighter than Louis [10 pounds] was actually as large or larger than Louis was from the waist up...In a boxing book of the times of Dempsey, the book describes Dempsey as " Amazingly Strong "..I have seen film of Jack picking Firpo up from the floor...With gloves on that require real strength...
There is a small segment of a clip I have seen of Dempsey and Firpo...It shows Dempsey entwined with , but Dempsey has his left hand free, and without any punching room,Dempsey shoots his left hooks and uppercuts [about 10 times],with such speed and power, onto Firpos jaw, that it still awes me....A sample of what Dempsey was before his 3 year hiatus from boxing...Folks check this little segment out....Fast twitching muscles ala young Roberto Duran....

 

hard fight to pick: for me, it's Dempsey early. seeing as Louis is a slow starter and Dempsey is a fast explosive starter, I think Dempsey would throw that trademark left hook and KO Dempsey. but if he doesn't hurt or floor Louis early then Louis will take control and KO Dempsey early. I'm still not sure about this one because Both of these guys are such hard punchers: if I had to bet, I'd probably pick Dempsey, I don't think Louis can survive the early attack: if he does, it's all Louis.

 

Louis a slow starter? What? He knocked out 2 hall of famers in 1 round, and 5 of his 25 title defenses were ended in 1 round. If Dempsey comes out and tries to slug with the Joe Louis who fought Max Schmeling in 1938, Dempsey will get knocked out cold in one round. Dempsey cannot survive louis's early attack.

 

I think Louis has the better resume, but head to head? At their best, I wouldn't bet a nickel on the outcome...I would just sit down and enjoy watching it...and no doubt stand up and enjoy watching it, too!

I do know for sure that my dad saw them both live, and if you could ask him who would win, he would pick Dempsey without hesitation.

 

funny how Louis took 8 rounds, even in a rematch to take apart Godoy, who's style was similar to Dempsey but who was nowhere near as powerful or fast.

 

I personally think Dempsey is getting overrated h2h in this thread. We don't even know if the man would have beaten Harry Wills or Harry Greb, let alone Joe Louis. Bottom line is to beat Joe Louis, Dempsey would have had to out slug him. I cannot see any man in history walking into Joe Louis and coming out alive. Louis would tear dempsey apart at his own game. Louis combinations will get off faster, with greater snap, and greater efficiency, and accuracy. Louis was the more complete two fisted assassin. I like Louis by knockout early.


If this was a Marciano, Frazier vs Louis thread, everyone would be picking Louis in a landslide. Why is Dempsey any different?

 

Funny how Dempsey got knocked down 3 times by crude amatuer Luis Firpo, and needed a typewriter to illegally help him back in the ring to be saved from a knockout. Firpo is nowhere near the puncher Joe Louis was.

 

lol at dempsey losing to Harry Greb. Its amazing how much people can over rate Greb just by reading a few second hand accounts on their sparring sessions and without ever having seen Greb fight.

Dempsey is different then Marciano and Frazier because he is a faster starter then either of them, has much faster hands.

I favour Louis but to write of Dempsey is ridicolous.