What is ur HW top 10?

- THATS THE FUNNIEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN POSTED ON HERE!!! AAAAAGGGGHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Owned? The last time I looked Patterson beat Johannsen 2 out of three, didn´t he? Or does only the first one hold some weight?
Yep, Liston was more dominant. But then Liston was a big guy. Patterson was mall. Ever thought about that? What about Patterson fighting bigger guys while beeing past his prime? When did Liston do something comparable?

 

By your logic...Lennox Lewis should not be rated highly because he feasted on opposition "Smaller" than him.

 

Ok, well let's use a prime Muhammad Ali for instance. Do you really believe that Louis could deal with his tremendous hand and foot speed? Ali would dance circles around Joe for 15 rounds, if he didn't stop him with his blinding speed. Ok, you said head to head is only one factor, so that covers that one. Let's talk about reign and competition. Louis had one great, legendary reign against some good and many terrible fighters. Muhammad Ali had three reigns against the greatest generation of heavyweights of all time. Ali never lost in his prime. When he did lose, he avenged his losses to Frazier and Norton twice and Spinks once. Ali was old when he lost to Spinks, Holmes and Berbick. He won his last two world titles really on character. He was still skilled, but wasn't the same fighter that he was in the 60's. Muhammad Ali was the toughest, smartest heavyweight in the ring and had a chin of iron. Ali was faster than Joe, taller than Joe, had a longer reach than Joe, much better footwork, much better chin and the list goes on. How exactly do you rate Joe ahead of Ali????? I want to know.

 

Yes and no. Some things are easier achieve for big guys and so I give smaller fighters credit for beeing smaller.

 

Here's mine for the record - did put my top twenty on here many moons ago when I first properly joined up but here's how the first 10 look

1. ROCKY MARCIANO
2. JACK DEMPSEY
3. JOE LOUIS
4. MUHAMMAD ALI
5. JACK JOHNSON
6. SONNY LISTON
7. LARRY HOLMES
8. GEORGE FOREMAN
9. MIKE TYSON
10. EZZARD CHARLES

........OH OK THEN HERE'S 11-20

11. JERSEY JOE WALCOTT
12. RIDDICK BOWE
13. EVANDER HOLYFIELD
14. LENNOX LEWIS
15. GENE TUNNEY
16. JOE FRAZIER
17. JOHN L. SULLIVAN
18. FLOYD PATTERSON
19. MICHAEL SPINKS
20. JIM CORBETT

AND THEN

21. JIM JEFFRIES
22. MAX BAER
23. BOB FITZSIMMONS
24. MICHAEL MOORER
25. HASIM RAHMAN
26. MAX SCHMELING
27. JACK SHARKEY
28. INGEMAR JOHANSSON
29. JESS WILLARD
30. BUSTER DOUGLAS
31. LEON SPINKS
32. PRIMO CARNERA
33. TOMMY BURNS
34. JAMES BRADDOCK
35. MARVIN HART

 

At all other weights I would agree but not at hw. Heavyweight is an open weightclass and thus I treat it similar to p4p in that regard.

 

To point A) there is no fighter who stands a great chance against a prime Ali so that is moot.

To point B) The third of Ali's reigns was horrible. The 2nd had some of the most pathetic defenses ever registered along with some questionable decisions, and granted some of his most compelling fights. The first was certainly no great shakes as he beat some has-beens and never-were's.

To point C) Louis has a better legacy, in that he owned his contemporaries outright. Louis could have had 7 reigns had he chosen to lose the belt a number of times. Ali had great one-punch hand speed, but Louis threw fast and much harder combinations. Louis had a harder jab, hook and right hand. Louis threw devastating body shots. Ali had no body attack, little inside game and chose to clinch more often than not when the fighting got close. In his later days, from the the early/mid 70's on, he relied on banned tactics, clowning and generally playing to the judges. It was atrocious **** to watch. I see nothing cut and dry in the argument of head-to-head superiority.

 

True, but he got knocked around badly in the first fight. I find that very hurting to a guys legacy if he gets smacked around by someone as 1 dimensional as Ingemar Johanson. He got knocked down 7 times?!
True, Liston had his bad moments, like his fights with Ali, but none were as bad as Patterson getting smacked around and floored. H2h, and accomplishment-wise, and dominant wise.
So Patterson fought people bigger and younger then him? And? Liston fought people younger then him, but not bigger, because he was big for his time.

 

1.Ali
2.Marciano
3.Johnson
4.Holmes
5.Lewis
6.Holyfield
7.Tyson
8.Foreman
9.Vitali
10.Wlad

 

No, beeing smaller makes him not a better hw but overcoming a disadvantage like beeing smaller does - IMO.

Johannson capitalized on two things. First, he war relativly unknown. Second, Patterson had the tendency to get knocked out before getting going. Johannson did so. Not worse than getting KOed in one by Ali who isn´t a big puncher - and yeah IMO that´s a legit KO.
That´s my point. Liston was big. Patterson was small. Patterson overcame that disadvantage and still became a great hw. That counts for something in my book.