What is ur HW top 10?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shaolin-Abbot, May 27, 2010.


Page 7 of 32
  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,088
    3,779
    Sep 14, 2005
    Fantastic Point Maghoo
     
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    #91
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    66,217
    53,686
    Feb 11, 2005
    Other than Liston too high, I like this.

    Kudos on no Jack Johnson or Dempsey.
     
    Seamus, May 28, 2010
    Seamus, May 28, 2010
    #92
  3. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,229
    259
    Oct 22, 2009
    To dethrone the man you got to beat him. If you don´t you may win belts but not the championship.

    Well, there are enough indication about him doping to assume he did so.
     
    bodhi, May 28, 2010
    bodhi, May 28, 2010
    #93
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    114,824
    51,914
    Mar 21, 2007

    Jack Johnson has been sliding down my list just as Foreman has been creeping up. It broke my heart to take him off, as I think he's the baddest mother-****er that ever boxed, bar nobody. I love him. And I can see him at #9 or #10, still, on someone elses list. But any higher than that...

    As for Dempsey, he's been outside my ten, basically since I took a serious interest in boxing history. I think he's a lethal boxer head to head, and pound for pound he may even be the most dangrous of all, but he's not a top-ten HW based upon generic criteria, and I feel as sure of that as anything on my list.

    11 - Jim Jeffries
    12 - Jack Johnson
    13 - Harry Will
    14 - Jack Dempsey


    And that's as of this morning.
     
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    #94
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,223
    27,729
    Jan 3, 2007
    You didn't address any of my comments, only continue to throw around a bunch of nonsense about beating " the man. " Patterson never beat Marciano, and the fact that Rocky retired rather than take an easy pay day against the shells of ex-contenders, shouldn't make him any less " the man" than Spinks was...


    i hope you never work in a court of law..
     
    mr. magoo, May 28, 2010
    mr. magoo, May 28, 2010
    #95
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006

    Basicaly, yes.

    Otherwise history would require some major revisions.

    Are you prepared to go there?
     
    janitor, May 28, 2010
    janitor, May 28, 2010
    #96
  7. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

    15,756
    102
    Dec 26, 2009
    Do you have a top 10 heavyweight list Janitor?
     
    tommygun711, May 28, 2010
    tommygun711, May 28, 2010
    #97
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    I personaly think that Jack Johnson has a prety good case for a #5 slot based on resume, and Dempsey is going to be hard to push out of your top 10.

    I had Sam Langford in my top 10 on my last list.
     
    janitor, May 28, 2010
    janitor, May 28, 2010
    #98
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    114,824
    51,914
    Mar 21, 2007
    No. I don't see it. His best wins are against figters that just aren't all the way there yet and his title run is awful, though he was pretty dominant and very relaxed about it all. He didn't fight his #1 challanger as champion - in fact I'd go as far as to say that Johnson wasn't tested versus the very best of his generation. I am satisfied that he was the best of them, but that's not good enough.

    Do you have him above, or below Jim Jeffries? Jeffries is one of the winners on my new list.

    He is creeping up mine, I have him at #15.
     
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    #99
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,088
    3,779
    Sep 14, 2005
    Jack Johnson's resume get's very underrated. A great boxing historian once told me "The difference between Johnson's resume and Dempsey's is Johnson has the big names on his resume, while Dempsey does not. Whether or not they were at their best, it's better to have their names on your resume than to not have them at all."

    These words connected with me, and I never forgot them.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    #100
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,088
    3,779
    Sep 14, 2005
    Well, Hold on. Jack Johnson's coloured title reign can be argued to be better than most heavyweight championship title reigns in history. Johnson defended the title over 10 times, including defeating Sam Langford, Joe Jeanette, and Sam Mcvea. Sam Mcvea was world class when Johnson beat him, Jeanette had just stopped Sam Langford and was 26 years old, and if Bob Fitzsimmons gets credit for being a good heavyweight win at 156-167lb, than Sam Langford should be given credit for being defeated by johnson, despite being 156lb(like Fitz). I think Langford, Jeanette, Mcvea were all young dangerous fighters when they fought Jack Johnson, and don't forget Johnson himself was still developing at the time. Add Denver Ed Martin, Frank Childs, to the list, and you have a respectable Coloured Heavyweight Title Reign. This is not even counting all the other countless wins over contenders/fringe contenders he had dating all the way up to 1925! Great Quantity in there.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    #101
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
     
    janitor, May 28, 2010
    janitor, May 28, 2010
    #102
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    114,824
    51,914
    Mar 21, 2007

    He definitely has a lot of good wins. But McVey and Jeanette, I have to believe, were to get better. Langford was certainy to become a much better HW. I just don't know what his flagship win would be..perhaps a not yet primed Jeatnette?
     
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    #103
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,088
    3,779
    Sep 14, 2005
    Jeffries said he would never have beaten Jack Johnson on his best day. I agree with him.
     
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    SuzieQ49, May 28, 2010
    #104
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    114,824
    51,914
    Mar 21, 2007
    I don't think it could be said of most of the men on the list, in fact. Even when it can, there are other circumstances. Louis and Ali obviously get a pass, as does Liston. Lewis didn't meet Bowe who was probably best of the rest when Lewis first held a belt, but we all know what happened there. Rocky and Frazier fought who the ought and so did Foreman and Holyfield. The only men who could be criticised in this sense are Holmes, who had a massively long reign by way of partial compensation, and Mike Tyson, whose second reign is a horrible mess - also, in taking on Holyfield instead of Lewis, he met a guy who makes the list anyway.

    Johnson had an absolutley and clearly outstanding challenger who wanted to fight him. You could argue that he also failed to entertain his #2 and #3 challenger, also, having previously beaten less complete versions.
     
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    McGrain, May 28, 2010
    #105
Page 7 of 32