Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

Yes. We know that. Louis still had the best jab the division had to offer in 1951. True or False?

or

3. Louis was a hard working Top Contender who was hungrily campaigning and training for a rematch with Charles to regain his throne. Louis had gone 8-0 since the last loss recording a few good victories, and felt with his size, power, skills, he was still was one of the most dangerous men in the division...despite being 37 and visibly past his prime.

I beg to differ.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9zg7B-4p8[/ame]

Savold was beaten up so badly he had to be hospitalized and undergo quite a few operations on his face to fix the damage Louis had done.

Name me 5 heavyweights in the world who could beat Joe Louis in 1951?

Once again, no one here is arguing Louis was anywhere near close to his prime.

 

The division wasn't much to speak of. I would have to go back and check to look over who exactly was highly rated at that time to be positive. And it would have to be top 5 guys too though and not fighters coming up?
Either way, Joe wasn't the same all around.

Ah, NO. His hunger was gone just like his body. Mentally, Physically...it looked like the Brown Bomber had taken off long ago.

His victories are clouding your Judgment. Look at how he looked as a fighter and look at who he fought. Even compare his record, specifically the KO% compared to his youth.

In that era or just in general?

Because if it is in that era, it's not saying much. But All Time? I have a list.

So what were we debating again?

The Jab???

Either way, Sonny's Jab was superior to a 1950+ Joe Louis. That was my point.



And he looks bad to me in that Savold fight. As far as the jab, it's still not the same Jab I'm talking about. It's there but it is not "there"

 

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A very bad match up for Marciano who gets busted up badly and stopped in about five ... very few fighters in history match up as well against Marciano as Liston would ...

 

I see it the same. If Marciano could somehow avoid Liston's big punches for six rounds or so,then I'd take him to stop Sonny late on. But I just can't see him doing this. Liston would connect early and stop Rocky within the first three stanzas.

 

I would take Liston inside 10. Without going into detail, I just fancy his jab to keep Rocky off him for long periods and his hard, precise punching to slice him up.

 

I actually strong disagree with you. I think Marciano matches up far better against Sonny Liston than he does against a big fast skilled mover like Muhammad Ali. Marciano-Liston would be a fairly close fight. I like liston over the rock by decision. Liston would do a number on rock in the early-mid rounds with rock coming on strong in the end.

 

Ya. Thing is, Liston had great stamina in his prime..and if this fight were to go to the latter rounds, I think Liston could put up enough of a workrate to at least weather part of rocky's uncoming storm. However for Rocky to even make it to round 10 is going to be the struggle of his life. Liston will really do a number on him on the outside and in toe to toe exchanges. But Rocky just seemed like one of those damm near impossible to put away with his iron chin, and I see him lasting through the difficult times.. Liston would really be advised in the latter rounds to stay on the outside and just 'box' him. Jab him to death. Potentially open up some cuts. Rocky will be a human windmill all over him from 12-15. Liston had a great chin too, therefore I don't see any late come from behind for the rock.

I know it's hard to envision this going the distance..but this isn't foreman and frazier in there. Foreman was wild aggresive slugger. Liston was a calm patient stalker. Liston would not walk right into marciano. he would box him carefully and wait for rocky to make the first move. Frazier was an aggresive non stop moving forward swarmer. Marciano was another calm patient stalker who loved to slowly move in, and hide underneath his crouch. Rocky would be very weary about walking into liston...I do not see liston-marciano either of them engaging eachother early.


Liston wins by decision

 

What part made sense? about rocky never beating a 'good' 200lb + fighter(which is false)??

Or him completely belittling Joe Louis jab, when it busted the **** out of a prime ezzard charles face, among others from 1950-1951?

 

I think this would be a very good fight.. Even though I couldn't favor Rocky, I'd be cheering for him, and would expect him to give it his very best.. Sonny probably takes it, but The Rock would have a real chance.. By the time its all over, both men would know they were in a war....

 

Do you think Marciano has any chance of scoring a KO, before Liston gets into his grove?

 

You make some good points. Marciano would be overwhelmed for the most part in this fight because even if he gets in close, liston is stronger and is himself a very good inside fighter, enough to offset rocky's superior leverage in close.

I will say... Liston should be strongly advised to really make sure he brings that left jab back to his cheek everytime he jabs. That roundhouse Suzy Q will be coming. That punch is no joke.