Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

I disagree. He had trouble with ONE guy that could move around, when liston himself was past his prime.

 

He didn't look overly impressive against Machen. Well, for someone of Liston's stature anyway.

It's like when Tyson had some trouble at his peak with guys that would tie him up and look to survive. They'll get the criticism. But it still shows that he can't just blast anyone out.

There is a bit of a bias in boxing. If Ali, and I'm using him because he is a "boxer" without a huge punch, goes the distance and wins a UD, and will use an opponent that keeps away and/or looks to survive by playing mostly defense....it is regarded as a "Good" win for Ali. Same fight if that were Liston, Tyson, and Foreman type fighters....it would be regarded as a failure and them being "exposed.

That said, Machen still troubled Liston enough to show that if you can keep a distance and use your own boxing skills to your advantage, against Liston, it showed Liston wasn't particular fast or overly productive against these type fighters. The key for Liston here would be to not just wear them down by keeping them on the move and when in close, attack the body. If you don't get the KO, you still have the decision win.

Liston however knew how to box which seems to go unnoticed by to many people now. He used his Jab to make up for being slow. And if you slipped the Jab, he had a right hand to get you.



There was also interesting article I read a few months back about Liston. I'll see if I can dig it up. Might take me a bit.


I do agree he was past his best against Clay/Ali.

Didn't Emanuel Steward say the same in that interview he did when he talked about this matchup?
It was up on Eastside not to long ago.

 

He outboxed and outworked a Master Boxer. He proved he could go 12 hard rounds in this one. I would say that is impressive.

 

Yes, lightning can strike anywhere like it did when an exhausted Ali caught an equally exhausted Bonavena with a perfect punch. Ali also went 41 rounds with Frazier and 39 with Norton and never put either down ... Rocky had a hell of a chin and I just personally believe he had the endurance to take em ...

 

So people think it makes no difference whatsoever. That Liston was slow and did the best he could with his style. As if more lateral movement wasn't going to shrink the ring even further. That against Ali the best thing he could've done was darted at him from a straight line in the center of the ring. I know it goes against all logic, though.

 

The Sonny Liston of 1959 would have done better against Ali. He still would have lost, but he would have done much better. Perhaps go the distance in a losing effort. He might even catch Ali once or twice. Once Liston lost some of his speed and reflexes(by 1964), he was no match for Ali.

 

Liston is like most big bullies, if you can stay away and make him miss for a few rounds he'll get frustrated. Once you strip away that feeling of invincibility, he can be had

Rocky Marciano

 

Well, he still had 32 fights, not a novice to me and how many punchers did Williams beat. Williams was one of the best built fighters I ever saw, Mike Williams was another but I am not convinced he had a solid chin Suzie

I used to love to watch NY kid Carl" the Truth "Williams he had amazing ability, good jab and nice combo's and movement and was built well but the truth was if you tapped that chin it was over.

I will never forget a friend of mine owned a bar and it was a mixed neighborhood there was a big guy, bully type with arms as big as my legs, he stood about 6"4 and weighed a good 240 but fit looking and muscular, he reminded me of a Cleveland Williams,Ken Norton type, the kind you would rather shoot than fight, he was a bully type he got argument because there was a pay phone in the back and this short 5"8 stocky but not fit bookmaker was on the phone and he had to make a call. After a few words and a some punches were exchanged, the short guy connected with a right hand on the button and the big guy shook like Ingomar Johanson vs Floyd II, he lay there for a bit the book-maker grabbed his butts off the bar and left and the bar tender said" You can build the body but there is nothing you can do for the chin" I later heard a story about this short guy and his smaller brother they were street level guys, wise guy types but both had a rep for one punch KO's and had victims all over Brooklyn and Staten Island.


The moral of the story" You can build the body but there is nothing you can do for the chin"

 

I can agree with that, liston's big weakness is against slick, fast boxers, and not a boxer that would walk right to him like rocky. rocky would run right into that dreaded right uppercut. Given Rocky's toughness, he would probably last through alot of punishment. but I don't think this one goes the distance. rocky would just take too many thudding punches, and probably gets stopped within 5 rounds.
rocky would probably be the fresher of the two later on, but the problem is, I don't think rocky survives liston's attack early on. I think sonny Liston bests Marciano inside the distance.

 

liston & ali were most opposite fighters you could meet. same with marciano v ali. ali knew to stay at length and marciano wanted to be in close. liston tried that tactic and was embarrassed - too slow on his feet. footwork controls everything.

 

Liston was in his mid thirties against a brilliant young Ali ... all these comments about him being slow and a victim to boxers is overstated ... who would catch a young Ali ? No doubt an old Liston quit against Ali twice. He was not the most noble warrior. He came into the first fight old, inactive, out of shape and threw in the towel rather than keep being embarrassed. It was a perfect storm lining up .. I just see a perfect storm in Sonny's favor in a match up in styles against Rocky ...

 

Has anyone ever watched Marciano commentate on fights in that old Main Event show? Rocky had a very unique style of commentating. I think he would have been phenominal commentating in the 80s-90s. such a shame he did not live a longer life..

Here is an interesting video on his death. Many people don't know this, but rocky was decapitated in the plane crash :shock:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Ugl7JvXjc[/ame]

Ali said in his autobiography how he broke speed limits and flew by stop signs in order to get to Marciano funeral on time.

 

Yes, they used to show some of them on ESPN classics back in the day.

I remember one in particular where he was doing his show and Zsa Zsa Gabor was his guest and all I could think about is...I wonder if he....

For his death, in the original Sports-Century of Rocky Marciano, it was noted. I noticed they edited it out when I watched it a couple of year later.

It really doesn't need to be known.

"Let's Remember How He Lived"

 

Sonny would not have to go looking for Marciano however ,Rocky would be coming in ,straight into his heavy artillery.