Jack Johnson in the 1970's...?

at least by all accounts they are skilled and possess victories over semblances of decent fighters...

by the way, thank you for participating.

 

Johnson was great for his era. It's almost as though they are two different sports, comparing then and now or then and 1960's. Every other sport fairly acknowledges this fact. Some of the participants would translate to today's game, most would not... some might even translate better! The point remains to judge fighters within their own era's. Legacy-wise, Johnson was great. As far as we really know, he would be lost in a modern ring.

 

I think you need to view the sport in context and as a development. There are many aspects of the 1900-1910 game today's fighters could not take. First of all, a lack of oral surgeons or decent medical care. You were pretty much hung out to dry after a fight. Makes it all the more incredible some of these guys fought so long. Imagine the chronic injuries of eye, jaw, brain, neck they must have suffered. Not too mention the lack of teeth.

Today you train for an opponent you can see ad nauseum on film. Back then, at best you relied on a former opponent, sparring partner or worse a reporter. You had to learn your opponent to a greater degree in the ring. And only in a best case scenario you had more than a couple weeks to prepare.

Also, most of those old-timers had day jobs, hard, menial labor. Not all could be Jim Corbett- bank clerk. Training could consist largely of manual labor for all but the very best of the lot.

I could go on, many here could go on further...

But for those circumstances, Johnson was a great, not heads and shoulders above what was available, but definitely at the fore. How this translates to today's game is another question entirely.

 

No. He won the Coloured Heavyweight Championship of the world. He defeated top 10 contenders Frank Childs, Bob Armstrong, Hank Griffin, Sam McVea, Sandy Fergusson.

I have seen Martin on film. Very tall and Rangy, good footwork for a giant. Good Jab. A 5'8 fighter like Tom Sharkey would have had a very difficult time with him.

 

I know this isn't really on point, but I can't get the image of a 1914 Jack Johnson fighting a 1977 Ali. What an ugly fight that would be.

 

They should have suspended the Coloured HW Championship at that particular moment or exhumed the corpse of Molineux.

If I met McVea 114 times, I also might have a victory.

 

If I met McVea 114 times, I also might have a victory.[/quote]


It's more likely that you'd be dead.

 

So you think that a shot Holy would have likely been knocked down by Ketchel and not climbed off the canvas to beat him? Imagine what Johnson would have done to a shot Holyfield as opposed to a shot Jeffries.

What about if he had to climb off the deck to take out the former 170 pound, Carl Thompson? How do you think Thompson would have fared against Ketchell?

 

It's more likely that you'd be dead.[/QUOTE]

Of course I would be, I would have to be 130 years old to still be alive.

 

i've seen a number of docos about johnson, maybe they didn't show enough of his fights, but i can't see him beating boxers from the seventies. like someone said, its like two different sports.
i don't have proof, but i would imagine boxers train differently then they did back then. more is known about sports-science for example, they obviously know more about things like nutrition, all types of things. everything has advanced compared to jack's era.

swimmers, tennis players, track and field athletes, footballers, none of these would be able to compete with their counterparts from the seventies. its commonsense. all sports had advanced so much by the seventies, including boxing.

i agree that johnsons legend has been inflated over the decades. i think its becoz he was so different to others at that time, and becoz he was black. he was a kind of hero to so many people, and hated by so many at the same time, he was more than a boxer. yes, if he would of been white, we wouldn't be talking about him nearly as much. peoples exploits tend to get made bigger and better over many years, its just what 'we' do.

if you want to believe that he could've held his own against the greats of the seventies then do so, however i choose to be realistic. he was very good for his time, maybe great, but if he was dropped into a seventies ring against the top boxers he would be flabbergasted. he would be shocked at how much boxing has come along.
maybe he'd be fine in a bar-room brawl against a frazier, etc, but not in a ring.

i know you will say that i know nothing about boxing, but i have been watching the sport for forty years and my opinion is as valid as anyones.

 

I think he also gets enormous mileage out of Nat Fleischer rating him over everybody else even after Ali's peak.

 

Johnson on film does not throw enough punches to win modern matches vs elite level fighters. His brand of defense from a distance won't work vs a skilled out fighter as his height would be average in the 70's.

I think Ali wins a decision, Frazier scores a TKO. Foreman is the guy I give Johnson a chance to beat, because had trouble with boxer types, and lacked stamina.