Cooper was a fighter that was routinely stopped in his losing efforts, but always seemed to be stopped on his feet. Even if he was dropped, I never saw a ref count 10 over a unconscious Cooper, such as when he was dropped by Moorer. He just absorbed some absolute killer shots and many times never even went down... Holyfield absolutely ****ing battered him... Bert always seemed to have that ability, to soak up punishment. He quit several times in his second career, often times actually turning his back to his opponent and walking away. He quit against Corrie Sanders, George Foreman, Samson Po'uha... Etc. So, did anyone ever completely part Cooper from his senses?
No, nobody ever really did. issBoxWRECK records his loss to Bowe as a clean knockout, but referee Richard Steele actually waved off the count at five when it looked as though Cooper could still regain his feet. (This was kind of a strange call by Steele, as the bell to end round two rang loudly immediately after Bert went to the floor. Cooper being Cooper didn't protest too much though.) Smokeless Bert is one of the most frustrating heavyweights of the last 30 years. Frazier could provide him with training, but unfortunately, couldn't transplant his fighting heart to Cooper. With Joe's determination, Bert could have been a hall of famer, and he must have driven Frazier nuts with his lack of balls.
Never saw or heard of Cooper getting starched. He would quit fighting, though, after you stood up to his best shots. He could still be winning a fight, and still quit. Being a fan of his, he was maddening to watch. He was a classic bully who didn't like getting hit back. He could take the punishment, he just didn't want to take the punishment.
HOF eh'? You seem to think extremely highly of Bert, though I agree that he had a lot of potential. Why do you feel he had so much, out of curiosity?
As you yourself has pointed out, he was naturally capable of standing up to tremendous shots. He had excellent power in both hands. He could start fast (11 wins in the first round, three in the second), had later round potency, and he could win over 12 (Tillman). He had an excellent reach for a man under six feet tall. (78-1/2") Unlike his mentor, he had two good eyes, as well as knockout power from both sides. Give him Frazier's never say die heart, and you have somebody who might get decked on occasion, but who would always get up and keep on coming. He never got up to win, but he did climb off the floor to drop Moorer, and he came back from an early knockdown to last the distance with Mercer, so he did have the capacity to recover from being hurt. At his very best, he could be a terrific force, and should have become the foremost swarmer of his era. He ought to have been a good deal more than a champion at the NABF level. He had the physical attributes, but the heart and mind didn't measure up. He was utterly lacking in intangibles. He was Frazier without the guts. (At least he's at little risk of developing pugilistica dementia.)
He seemed to also be the anti-Frazier in that Frazier was capable of being stunned by fighters who weren't world class, where as just about anyone could tee off on Cooper. Dozens of unanswered shots and he'd soak it up, that same old dopey look on his face and eyes when the fight was stopped, sometimes seemingly oblivious to the beating he was taking.
Cooper vs Bruno could've been fun, especially if they'd both landed huge shots at the same moment...weeble-wobble time.
You'll have to forgive me Dean, but this statement doesn't make much sense to me... You claim that Cooper had no heart or no balls? Have you ever seen his fights with Moorer, Mercer and Holyfield? He sure as hell didn't look like he lacked a heart or a pair of testicles in those fights..
Bowe ****ed Cooper's **** up in two rds back in '90 on the "Holy-Doug" undercard in Vegas........... Cooper was in great shape at about 210 pounds, but too small for the 230ish Bowe........ MR.BILL:good:scaredas::shock:
I've already mentioned how he got off the deck to go the distance with Mercer, and up from the floor to return the favor to Moorer, but my lingering memory of Bert will always be when he quit against Foreman with the excuse that, "My head is buzzing!" (How do you suppose his mentor's head felt after going one round with George in Kingston?) 14 stoppage defeats in 59 bouts? Are you kidding me? He lost to not one, but at least two opponents old enough to be his daddy. (Weaver being the other one.)
We're obviously not going to agree on this, but frankly I attribute many of Burt's losses to a whole myriad of reasons and circumstances, but lacking heart and guts are not among them.... Not for me.... Sometimes he was just outmatched... Other defeats came either before he had reached his prime, or after his prime had left him..... The Foreman loss had to do with the fact that he had been drinking and using Cocaine the night before, resulting in him being sick the next day.. ( combine a night of snorting blow and drinking booze with taking some of Foreman's best shots, and my head would be buzzing too..... His fault of course, but that doesn't warrant the blanket statement that he had no heart or no guts.... Now, as a middle of the road compromise, maybe you can convince me that there were TIMES when he could have shown a bit MORE heart or MORE balls, but your current position is just to broad for my liking, and it certainly doesn't sum up his whole career.
Perhaps. Let's just say that I think he could have pulled himself through far greater adversity if he had Frazier's work ethic, commitment, and sense of responsibility. With one good eye and arm, and a questioned chin (ever since Jimmy Cannon critiqued his whiskers following Bonavena I), Joe raised hell. Bert had two good eyes and arms, and otherwise comparable physical dimensions. When the hell was his prime anyway? His career was littered with 15 defeats (ten by stoppage) while he was in his 20s. Did he peak at 27, when Hercules beat him with a comfortable UD? At what point does a myriad of reasons and circumstances morph into nothing more than a litany of lame excuses? Lombardi said it-The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender. That's what made Frazier and Marciano so great. Cooper didn't share their discipline, inside or outside the ring.