Tua Versus Marciano

I agree that these two have ATG chins but do you really think that Marciano can take a 250 lb juggernaut's punches for 12 rounds? Who has Marciano fought who's punches remotely compare to Tua's? It's debatable whether or not Tua could actually throw bombs for an entire 12 round fight while being pressure but I think it's even more questionable to assume that Marciano could take Tua's power when he was floored by Walcott...

 

:think

Nobody did....in this thread at least. Some idiot deined Lennox Lewis got caught with decent Tua lefts, video evidence proves contrary.

 

-At 250 Tua was lethargic and grossly overweight. 225 was probably his best weight.

-Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore are all time great punchers. All have koed better quality opponents than Tua's victims when he fought them, and many like Moore and Louis have stopped modern size heavies. Nobody is denying Tua's power but suggesting he was well beyond these greats because he carried more weight is errorenous. The results speak for themselves. All these guys could bang, even the past it Louis was busting tough fighters up.

-He was floored by Walcott the same way Tua was floored by Rahman. Walcott connected with much better punches later in the fight, mostly straight rights as Rocky was difficult to time clean with his signature left hooks and uppercuts because of his stance and high right hand......which worries me about Tua's chances. His tendancy to shell up and wait for his turn to punch instead of looking for counters is also cause for concern against a guy who has been described as a boat motor.

Of course all interesting and logical analysis has been tossed out the window in this thread in favor of "if such and such knocked him down what would such and such do?"

 

Your right. Tua did have late clutch power, but that was against men who stood right in front of him. Against Chris Byrd, Tua looked lost. Lastarza will be moving and countering the whole fight. Roland was all defense.

 

Tua was past prime against Byrd though and he knocked out undefeated Oquendo late who is a fast stick and mover, who actually deserved the decisions over Byrd and Holyfield to. Tua has faced plenty of stick and move merchants and knocked them out

 

So I went over the top. That deliberately naff post of mine is exactly what a number of genuine posts on this thread look like, though it wasn't really directed at you, but nevermind. I expected no less.

It's fairly common knowledge that Tua (whose power for your information I actually greatly respect and didn't question) hits harder than Vitali with one punch. No question, so bringing up the Sullivan fight as a legitimate example of Tua's power at the very highest level....nah, sorry. Not convinced. There's a difference between stopping middle of the road types who are made for you and stopping the best. Tua has real power, granted. Just not to the astronomical level his fans seem to think, and certainly not to the point where people are using examples of Marciano suffering flash knockdowns against some of the greatest hitters in the history of the sport are evidence to suggest that Tua would starch him.

And how many really big hitters other than perhaps Rahman (whose general skillset and pure power are both overrated anyway) has Ruiz faced since the Tua KO all those years ago? Maybe David Haye, against whom he was pulled out, regardless of his age or the deterioration of his already limited abilities. Ruiz's chin is far from bad, but it isn't absolute top drawer. His ugly, mauling style got him by more than his chin did IMO.

And Marciano beat down a fair few durable men, probably more at a glance than Tua has anyway. Moore, Layne, Matthews, LaStarza, Charles and Walcott were durable at the highest level even if they did suffer the odd KO loss - unsurprising for the era they fought in. You could even make an argument that everal of the men he stopped who had displayed considerable durability prior to facing him, such as Layne, were never the same afterwards punch resistance-wise. It happens.

Is that 'logic' good enough for you? Or is too ******ed?

 

I could well say the same for plenty of the opinions you post on here chum. And I was being sarcastic.

 

So styles and physical size have absolutely no bearing? It only matters that their skill level was far superior to Tua's? Nah, at some point the size factor starts to take over. Were not talking about elusive fighters or even range fighters. Were talking about fighters who mix it up and take a few to give a few. Thats where the difference is. Noone is denying those fighters are great and have all the accomplishments of ATG's, but that doesnt make them invincible against solid top tier fighters who outweigh them by 50 plus pounds and punch as hard or harder than anything they've faced. You cant comment on how Tua would have done against an ATG pressure fighter because he never faced one. Their styles are a far cry from a 6'5 250 pound range fighter. At some point size, power, and the biggest one, "style" start to offset skillset.

 

No harm done Nib-Lets ...

 

Other than in your fantasies of romanticising Marciano opponents, how do you get off drawing rational comparisons between what Byrd accomplished and LaStarza's career ? Stick with the weathered versions of Charles/Walcott/Moore ... your propping up of Louis, Layne and now LaStarza is really silly. It undermines your credibility ... what's next ? I'm waiting for the credits of the legendary Cockell ...

 

Firstly I'll apologise if I came off offensive or overly harsh

I think I gave some pretty good examples of Tua stopping durable fighters, destroying fighters faster and more brutally than other puncher. Haye was a concussive puncher at 200lbs, even against the HW Bonin, but he couldn't replicate what Tua did by KO'ing Ruiz

You are discrediting the Sullivan KO, saying 'well we know Tua hits harder than Vitali', well isn't that an achievement in itself? And significantly harder to boot

Look at what Tua did to Moorer, Foreman/Holyfield weren't close to doing that to Moorer. Rahman has been ko'd a couple of times by Maskeev/Lewis, but Tua did it first, Wlad could only TKO a shot Rahman.

Yes Marciano stopped some durable guys, I don't think Charles/Walcott/Moore were too durable though chin wise. And Marciano rarely left an opponent knocked cold like Tua did, this is a big difference in their power and its not because. Not many have that sort of 'leaving them cold' type power, its sick and I don't see Marciano as that type of puncher

1 point we may disagree on is the weight issue. The bigger men tend to have better chins and hit harder on average. So Tua stopping bigger men is often harder to do. Moorer/Charles/Marciano are great P4P for their weight but against big men they would really be up against it

My initially post outlined how I saw the fight going, if Marciano can take the power or somehow slip and beat Tua to the punch and back him up, he can win. I just have my doubts on him taking Tua's power.

I'd add this match up isn't entired fair to Marciano, his era was different, Tua has the benefit of nutrition/bulking/sports science to build him into a bigger stronger man

 

Exactly...at some point, overwhelming physical advantages have to play a role. Tua would outweigh Marciano by at least 40 lbs and , surprisingly, would hold a p4p strength advantage as well. Marciano would still have that vaunted one punch KO power but Tua matches him here as well due to the sheer force of his punches.
One scenario that could play into Marciano's favor is if he's somehow able to weather Tua's 3-4 round storm and simply outlast him the old fashioned way. Wars of attrition would always play into Marciano's hands...

 

Both Byrd and Lastarza were ring magazine # 1 contenders. Both were slick defensive counterpunchers. The comparison is Valid.

If I can be accused of overrating Marciano and Liston's opposition by you, then you can be critisized for underrating Liston and Marciano's opposition. So it works both ways.


Why don't you tell us about that Luis Angel Firpo. What a "Murderous" puncher he was