Thoughts on Jones Jr as an example of the definition

TBooze is an idiot, and lots of posts in here are complete ****.

TBooze sucks Hopkins dick all the time and he has him inside the Top 30 "ATG" and has Jones outside. There is no way in hell Hopkins should be ahead of Jones, NO WAY.

Roy Jones is a definite ATG


Roy Jones -


Jorge Vaca (1992) (Middle) (32 years)

Jorge Castro (1992) (Middle) (25 years)

Bernard Hopkins (1993) (Middle) (28 years)

Thulani Malinga (1993) (Super Middle) (37 years)

Thomas Tate (1994) (Middle) (29 years)

James Toney (1994) (Super Middle) (26 years)

Vinny Pazienza (1995) (Super Middle) (32 years)

Tony Thornton (1995) (Super Middle) (35 years)

Merqui Sosa (1996) (Super Middle) (30 years)

Mike McCallum (1996) (Light Heavy) (40 years)

Montell Griffin (1997) (Light Heavy) (26 years)

Virgil Hill (1998) (Light Heavy) (34 years)

Reggie Johnson (1999) (Light Heavy) (32 years)

Eric Harding (2000) (Light Heavy) (27 years)

Julio Cesar Gonzalez (2001) (Light Heavy) (25 years)

Clinton Woods (2002) (Light Heavy) (30 years)

John Ruiz (2003) (Heavy) (31 years)

Antonio Tarver (2003) (Light Heavy) (35 years)



Bernard Hopkins -


Lupe Aquino (1994) (Middle) (31 years)

John David Jackson (1997) (Middle) (34 years)

Glen Johnson (1997) (Middle) (28 years)

Simon Brown (1998) (Middle) (34 years)

Syd Vanderpool (2000) (Middle) (27 years)

Keith Holmes (2001) (Middle) (32 years)

Felix Trinidad (2001) (Middle) (28 years)

William Joppy (2003) (Middle) (33 years)

Oscar De La Hoya (2004) (Catch Weight 158 ) (31 years)

Antonio Tarver (2006) (Light Heavy) (37 years)

Winky Wright (2007) (Catch Weight 170) (36 years)

Kelly Pavlik (2008) (Catch Weight 170) (26 years)

 

Great??? Roy is the perfect example of the watering down of the sport and how the media has been able to create champions rather than fighters ascend to championships through trials by fire as they did in the past.

 

Philosophy is just a bad product of misunderstanding language...maybe. :think

 

Have to agree with Duodenum and Bodhi here, Fringe ATG sounds about right when we compare his accomplishments to those universally considered ATG

 

Actually Robinson's defeats are pretty much as bad, its just everyone now thinks Basilo, Fullmer and Pender are great because they beat SRR, but in reality they beat him because they are old, in reality they are no better than Tarver, Calzaghe, Johnson.

Are you seriously saying in a 50 fight pro career Jones hasn't been hit. Punch resistance goes with age and so does defense/reactions, everyone knows that

You're playing 1 rule for 1 fighter, another rule for other fighters. Charles and Jones weren't the same fighter they were in their primes, obvious in both cases

I take it you're of the opinion Ray LEonard, Griffith, Tyson, Holyfield, Duran aren't great either with the late career loses on their records

DOUBLE STANDARDS

 

I'm impressed.

 

I think you are confusing me with someone else, the only Great list I have posted is listed below, it is a few years old, and not my thoughts now, nor does it have Hopkins on it, or is it ever likely to.

Hopkins was an excellent fighter, but outside the very best we have ever seen IMO...

35 Roy Jones
34 George Foreman
33 Joe Gans
32 Ruben Olivares
31 Thomas Hearns
30 Marvin Hagler
29 Joe Louis
28 Gene Tunney
27 George Dixon
26 Eder Jofre
25 Carlos Zarate
24 Alexis Arguello
23 Pernell Whitaker
22 Oscar de la Hoya
21 Pancho Villa
20 Bob Fitzsimmons
19 Stanley Ketchel
18 Harry Grebb
17 Ezzard Charles
16 Benny Leonard
15 Julio Cesar Chavez
14 Mickey Walker
13 Ray Leonard
12 Carlos Monzon
11 Muhammad Ali
10 Charley Burley
9 Sammy Langford
8 Archie Moore
7 Jimmy Wilde
6 Willie Pep
5 Sandy Sadler
4 Georges Carpentier
3 Roberto Duran
2 Henry Armstrong
1 Ray Robinson

 

Aweful.

 

I would make a few changes, (McLarnin and Ross need to be there; Carpentier less so) but the list is generally excellent, and well thought out. I try not to get sucked into flavour of the month picks...

 

Hopkins is not higher than RJJ.

 

Monzon at 12, Charles and Greb at 17/18? Sounds pretty awful to me.

 

Greb and Tunney were clearly better than Carpentier in their era, thats like rating Cotto over Pacquaio and Mayweather

 

There are more threads on Roy Jones in this forum than any other fighter I'd say.

Anyways, I think Roy is a 'Great'. His resume does not come close to matching his ability, but he still achieved enough to justify being classified as a genuine Great. For me, his all-time standing suffers because of his resume, I would rank him below some guys who had inferior ability but took on and beat better fighters, but he still did enough in his career to be a top 40 ATG, or higher.

From his own era, I rank him below Pacquiao, but above Mayweather and Hopkins.

 

Wrong.

Also wrong.




The extremists from both sides of the debate talk shite.

Roy was far from being technically the greatest fighter ever, but he was also far from bring technically '****'.

 

Question for the lot. If Roy would have taken on Hopkins DM and a few others, who were around at the time, how much would it have improved his legacy?